under, let's say, many situations student loans should fall under bankruptcy. EACH individual however needs to go thru the process just like anyone else. No blanket forgiveness like Biden has tried to do, w/ his illegal by-passing of Congress. A student who has run up thousands in loans, after years of failing to receive a degree due to changing majors, & perhaps never getting a degree - that, imo, is very questionable. The fault, as I'm sure has been discussed previously, should also be placed on the loan company & the schools themselves. This could be a lengthy discussion so I'll end here... except to say your comparison to gambling debt is spot-on.
I see no reason why one loan should be treated differently than any other loan. Bankruptcy is a serious step with significant consequences. Many of the education loan companies used the same tactics as the sub-prime mortgages; sucker you into the loan and then sell them in packages to investors.
Glad to hear we can now access the insurrection investigation document. I’ve already started on it thanks to the NYT. It is good to know the facts. Also not surprising that TFG is upset flags will be at half mast for President Carter during the inauguration.
What about the schools' culpability in this scenario? Funding hundreds of thousands of degrees for which there are extremely limited or no opportunities? Whose interest do they have in mind? Appears that they are concerned only with their bottom line, not the students' best interests. Social science degrees are one that comes to mind: students start in something else, realize it's too hard or they lose interest, then switch to a psych major just to finish a degree. No, I am not making this up, I know people who have done that. Why should I, as a taxpayer (with a science degree) have to pay for that student's degree when I paid for my own with three years of military duty? Which, by the way, is still available. Why should people in the trades, with no college education, have to pay for this? Where is the student's commitment?
Sorry, Bill, but I do not agree with your intent here. But that's what makes your articles good and interesting: the right to disagree civilly.
I have a hard time with any form of student debt forgiveness when students have a choice of where to get their education. I didn’t go to the expensive colleges because I knew I’d need loans to get through, so I and my siblings went to SUNY schools. We still had loans but they were relatively manageable.
Why would Biden not forgive medical debt instead? Those people didn’t choose what illnesses they got. They couldn’t pick prostate cancer over lung cancer because it was cheaper. Yet they are saddled with unbearable debt AND illness, with no parachute from the President to help them out.
College is overpriced, we can all agree. $82,000 a year at NYU for a 4 year degree is downright larceny. So let’s figure out how to get these universities to back it down and make it affordable, then maybe medical debt will get some attention.
I'd have no issue with student loans being dischargeable in a bankruptcy if it was the BANK that absorbed the loss. Having the Federal government guarantee loans means the TAXPAYER absorbs the loss when the loan isn't repaid (or when it's otherwise "forgiven")
My husband and I saved plenty for my daughter to attend a CA university. When she decided to attend an out of state private school, we explained it would entail her getting student loans and being responsible for paying them back. Graduating in 2016 from university with a debt and entry level income it was extremely stressful for her. When we would offer to help out she insisted she could do it she was a big girl and it was her responsibility. However, the pressure of today’s world, expenses, and the price of success, drove her to taking her own life. I’m not saying student debt was the cause, I’m saying it did contribute to this tragedy. We had no idea how much the weight of the debt she was dealing with. I think there should be some way for higher education to cost less and maybe that is the federal government place of involvement.
Amen brother! On the whole, people who go to university are privileged! Why should the non-privileged pay for life choices of the privileged? Why should those who paid off their student loans pay for the loans of others? How does the nation benefit by more psych majors when you can’t get a plumber?
I went to college and got my bachelors and my masters degree. Our daughter went and got her bachelors and is currently pursuing her masters. We are not in any way, shape or form privileged. Not by any means. But we work in mental health fields and you absolutely have to have college education for that. There’s so much to know about people and the inner workings that you just can’t take someone off the streets to do. We are not privileged and we are both buried in student loans. Calling people go to college privileged is actually a stereotype.
Laura, in comparison to those who cannot go to university, those who do are privileged. Not privileged like Kings or Queens. I was born to a lower middle class family that no one would call privileged. I have a PhD in engineering and am definitely privileged, having been born with sufficient intelligence and emotional resilience. To be able to help those who suffer from mental health challenges is a privilege, is it not?
I give kudo's to Bill for being brave enough to throw this grenade of a subject into the pot. IMO, the answer is simple and fairly straightforward, if you promise a lender to repay the funds they upfront you and then stop or refuse to pay, that makes one a liar and a thief. Biden's immoral action to "forgive" federally insured student loan debt is inexcusable. Allowing individuals to push their debts onto the American population is immoral. Human beings living in a societal setting need to have personal responsibility. Personal responsibility is a critical block in the building of righteous character. What's next? Home mortgages? I agree with other commenters that lending institutions should be more discerning in approving loans, they can't be afraid to say no, you are a bad risk or the subject you want to attain to doesn't generate enough income for you to live and pay off your loan. I'm heartened by the fact that people are listening to Dave Ramsey who for years has been advising young people to forget about a 4 year college education and focus on learning a high paying vocational skill. Dave said that 4 year colleges many times are a bad investment. I think the fact that so many young people are struggling or failing to make their student loan payments proves Dave's point. BTW, I'm an engineer who paid back every cent of my federally insured student loan.
The department of education took over student loans. That makes the repayment a federal debt issue. Which means we have made the cost of college a collective society burden. We did NOT take over the colleges though. The result is massive profits to those colleges as they can raise the price and have the tax payers underwrite the loans.
The myth is, that this was changed to provide access to higher education to more people. It was actually the support those colleges in making incredible profits.
Geee that sounds like our medical system.
Was that brought to us by the same people. Shocker!
You through a hand-grenade into this subject while walking a tightrope. Gutsy move and hopefully soon forgotten? I read your articles sometimes for this reason and foreword many to others often. Not this one my friend…No forgiveness in this can of worms.
Regarding homeowners hiring private firefighters: How is that any different from people with the resources hiring private security or sending their kids to private school? When people lose confidence in the institutions that are supposed to be performing these functions, they look for alternatives. Some people move, some people home-school, some people stockpile guns, get guard dogs or put in security systems. If you're wealthy, you write a check. I'm not criticizing it, it's just a fact of life. As the article pointed out, many people in PP dropped their insurance because the cost went up -- but they will pay thousands a day for private firefighters? Sometimes, people's risk management decisions baffle me.
Regarding student loan forgiveness: I cash-flowed or used employer tuition assistance for two bachelors and an MBA. Our kids had modest student debt (<$10k each) as a backstop to what we saved for their education, and paid the loans off with earnings from their entry-level post-college jobs -- just like you're supposed to.
On the constitution. You know all the goals are in the pre-amble. Its hard to imagine the current state of education, housing, and health are a result of pursuing those goals. We as a collective need to wake up, stand up, and get out there to take back our government.
Take a breath.
I did NOT just say to storm the capitol.
Call or email your representatives, vote out the incumbents, stop supporting this two party system.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
I believe some people warrant having their student loans discharged, but others may not. I recall stories about doctors driving in Mercedes Benzs and living the high life who defaulted on their loans; no, these people do not deserve any forgiveness.
Others, however, who may have gotten over their heads to go to college or even trade schools (this happened with my own brother) that promise a gleaming life when one graduates - these folks do deserve help.
BTW, my brother paid off his trade school debt and went to state college. I wish more folks would consider community or state college but there is a lot of competition for the high value (cost) colleges as parents and students think this is how they can get a leg up and get a better job when graduated. Plainly said, some folks are snobs for big name universities (I'm looking at you McKinsey, et al).
As this is Biden's last week in office, I think he should do what he feels is the best for the country in the limited time he has left. So, if that means giving a reprieve to some student loan holders, that's ok. We know Trump will give millions to the billionaires soon enough.
I’m sure reading a lot of “I’ve got mine, screw you” here” with not one word about what government handouts and other pork are costing the US taxpayer. There seems to be a lot of misinformation about the proposed debt forgiveness plan so if anyone is interested further, here is a link.
Notice please there was a limit to the amount “forgiven” and a limit on families who were eligible. By the time republicans finished with all their overblown “facts” voters were outraged. Sound familiar? Same thing happened with the ACA that many now fear they will lose because they had no clue what they were told was Obamacare was, in fact, the ACA. Oops. Wash, rinse, repeat and people continue to fall for the hyperbole every time. Go figure. There once was a time, far, far in the past where a sound education was considered good for a country’s future and states made it easy to get one. In 1986 in-state tuition, fees, rm & board was $4,885.00 at UNC-CH, at the time one of the best non-ivy state schools in the country. Today tuition, fees, food and housing can run upward from $17,000 and anyone who has ever set foot on any campus knows there are myriad other expenses. We won’t even mention out of state costs. A lot has changed for so many since 1986. Just sayin’…….
I’m in the middle on whether to agree or disagree with your opinion on student loan forgiveness. Everyone must be responsible for the debt they incur but when a debt is unfair in many ways everyone becomes the victim. It should be questioned, and if necessary discharge by any and all legal means. There are many borrowers who are or were able to pay their loan(s) over time but defaulted. Yet there are many like me, a parent who signed a loan more than 29 years ago for a child to attend college, didn’t finish and the parent is stuck with a debt that the child can’t afford to pay or never made an effort to pay while the parents in their upper seventies struggled to survive and maintain some quality of life. Those individuals who complain about the student debt forgiveness, specifically members of congress and others are many of the same ones who accepted stimulus grant funds and never repaid them, yet they vote against student loan forgiveness. Does that seem right? Does it make sense that the same government can garnish a student loan debtor and take no actions against a member of congress and many others who defaulted or receive a forgiveness for the funds received from the same government we support. Try to resolve that situation using the Bill of Rights or Constitution. My debt balance hasn’t change by more than a couple of hundred dollars. No payments missed, like taxes it will be with me until I die and passed on to my estate.
John, We live in a wealthy society well capable of providing for our elderly. Sadly, we are currently and perhaps forever stuck in a place that elderly and everyone else are seen as commodities to be used in ever expanding systems to exploit a taxable base.
College is more expensive because the Department of education took over loans to "Make it easier to get a loan".
Houses are more expensive because Fanny and Freddie were created to "Make it easier to get a loan".
Medical is more expensive because Medicare and Insurance were create to "Make it easier to get care" and are in the middle and set negotiated "Not to exceed" prices.
We are exploited by ourselves. Smart, capable people doing a good job, but not recognizing our own role in these systems. These political parties act together to institute the systems of exploitation while pretended to fight over seemly intractable divisive problems.
Vote out the incumbents! If we can do this for a decade or so, it will weaken these forces. They are a result of humanity and can never be eliminated.
under, let's say, many situations student loans should fall under bankruptcy. EACH individual however needs to go thru the process just like anyone else. No blanket forgiveness like Biden has tried to do, w/ his illegal by-passing of Congress. A student who has run up thousands in loans, after years of failing to receive a degree due to changing majors, & perhaps never getting a degree - that, imo, is very questionable. The fault, as I'm sure has been discussed previously, should also be placed on the loan company & the schools themselves. This could be a lengthy discussion so I'll end here... except to say your comparison to gambling debt is spot-on.
scifi lovers get a shout-out for THE ENTERPRISE!!! Yay! I've always loved Star Trek!!!
Same here.
I see no reason why one loan should be treated differently than any other loan. Bankruptcy is a serious step with significant consequences. Many of the education loan companies used the same tactics as the sub-prime mortgages; sucker you into the loan and then sell them in packages to investors.
Glad to hear we can now access the insurrection investigation document. I’ve already started on it thanks to the NYT. It is good to know the facts. Also not surprising that TFG is upset flags will be at half mast for President Carter during the inauguration.
What about the schools' culpability in this scenario? Funding hundreds of thousands of degrees for which there are extremely limited or no opportunities? Whose interest do they have in mind? Appears that they are concerned only with their bottom line, not the students' best interests. Social science degrees are one that comes to mind: students start in something else, realize it's too hard or they lose interest, then switch to a psych major just to finish a degree. No, I am not making this up, I know people who have done that. Why should I, as a taxpayer (with a science degree) have to pay for that student's degree when I paid for my own with three years of military duty? Which, by the way, is still available. Why should people in the trades, with no college education, have to pay for this? Where is the student's commitment?
Sorry, Bill, but I do not agree with your intent here. But that's what makes your articles good and interesting: the right to disagree civilly.
I have a hard time with any form of student debt forgiveness when students have a choice of where to get their education. I didn’t go to the expensive colleges because I knew I’d need loans to get through, so I and my siblings went to SUNY schools. We still had loans but they were relatively manageable.
Why would Biden not forgive medical debt instead? Those people didn’t choose what illnesses they got. They couldn’t pick prostate cancer over lung cancer because it was cheaper. Yet they are saddled with unbearable debt AND illness, with no parachute from the President to help them out.
College is overpriced, we can all agree. $82,000 a year at NYU for a 4 year degree is downright larceny. So let’s figure out how to get these universities to back it down and make it affordable, then maybe medical debt will get some attention.
Biden DID forgive medical debt last week
I'd have no issue with student loans being dischargeable in a bankruptcy if it was the BANK that absorbed the loss. Having the Federal government guarantee loans means the TAXPAYER absorbs the loss when the loan isn't repaid (or when it's otherwise "forgiven")
My husband and I saved plenty for my daughter to attend a CA university. When she decided to attend an out of state private school, we explained it would entail her getting student loans and being responsible for paying them back. Graduating in 2016 from university with a debt and entry level income it was extremely stressful for her. When we would offer to help out she insisted she could do it she was a big girl and it was her responsibility. However, the pressure of today’s world, expenses, and the price of success, drove her to taking her own life. I’m not saying student debt was the cause, I’m saying it did contribute to this tragedy. We had no idea how much the weight of the debt she was dealing with. I think there should be some way for higher education to cost less and maybe that is the federal government place of involvement.
Amen brother! On the whole, people who go to university are privileged! Why should the non-privileged pay for life choices of the privileged? Why should those who paid off their student loans pay for the loans of others? How does the nation benefit by more psych majors when you can’t get a plumber?
I went to college and got my bachelors and my masters degree. Our daughter went and got her bachelors and is currently pursuing her masters. We are not in any way, shape or form privileged. Not by any means. But we work in mental health fields and you absolutely have to have college education for that. There’s so much to know about people and the inner workings that you just can’t take someone off the streets to do. We are not privileged and we are both buried in student loans. Calling people go to college privileged is actually a stereotype.
Laura, in comparison to those who cannot go to university, those who do are privileged. Not privileged like Kings or Queens. I was born to a lower middle class family that no one would call privileged. I have a PhD in engineering and am definitely privileged, having been born with sufficient intelligence and emotional resilience. To be able to help those who suffer from mental health challenges is a privilege, is it not?
I give kudo's to Bill for being brave enough to throw this grenade of a subject into the pot. IMO, the answer is simple and fairly straightforward, if you promise a lender to repay the funds they upfront you and then stop or refuse to pay, that makes one a liar and a thief. Biden's immoral action to "forgive" federally insured student loan debt is inexcusable. Allowing individuals to push their debts onto the American population is immoral. Human beings living in a societal setting need to have personal responsibility. Personal responsibility is a critical block in the building of righteous character. What's next? Home mortgages? I agree with other commenters that lending institutions should be more discerning in approving loans, they can't be afraid to say no, you are a bad risk or the subject you want to attain to doesn't generate enough income for you to live and pay off your loan. I'm heartened by the fact that people are listening to Dave Ramsey who for years has been advising young people to forget about a 4 year college education and focus on learning a high paying vocational skill. Dave said that 4 year colleges many times are a bad investment. I think the fact that so many young people are struggling or failing to make their student loan payments proves Dave's point. BTW, I'm an engineer who paid back every cent of my federally insured student loan.
Same as it ever was...
The department of education took over student loans. That makes the repayment a federal debt issue. Which means we have made the cost of college a collective society burden. We did NOT take over the colleges though. The result is massive profits to those colleges as they can raise the price and have the tax payers underwrite the loans.
The myth is, that this was changed to provide access to higher education to more people. It was actually the support those colleges in making incredible profits.
Geee that sounds like our medical system.
Was that brought to us by the same people. Shocker!
Bill,
You through a hand-grenade into this subject while walking a tightrope. Gutsy move and hopefully soon forgotten? I read your articles sometimes for this reason and foreword many to others often. Not this one my friend…No forgiveness in this can of worms.
Regarding homeowners hiring private firefighters: How is that any different from people with the resources hiring private security or sending their kids to private school? When people lose confidence in the institutions that are supposed to be performing these functions, they look for alternatives. Some people move, some people home-school, some people stockpile guns, get guard dogs or put in security systems. If you're wealthy, you write a check. I'm not criticizing it, it's just a fact of life. As the article pointed out, many people in PP dropped their insurance because the cost went up -- but they will pay thousands a day for private firefighters? Sometimes, people's risk management decisions baffle me.
Regarding student loan forgiveness: I cash-flowed or used employer tuition assistance for two bachelors and an MBA. Our kids had modest student debt (<$10k each) as a backstop to what we saved for their education, and paid the loans off with earnings from their entry-level post-college jobs -- just like you're supposed to.
On the constitution. You know all the goals are in the pre-amble. Its hard to imagine the current state of education, housing, and health are a result of pursuing those goals. We as a collective need to wake up, stand up, and get out there to take back our government.
Take a breath.
I did NOT just say to storm the capitol.
Call or email your representatives, vote out the incumbents, stop supporting this two party system.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
I believe some people warrant having their student loans discharged, but others may not. I recall stories about doctors driving in Mercedes Benzs and living the high life who defaulted on their loans; no, these people do not deserve any forgiveness.
Others, however, who may have gotten over their heads to go to college or even trade schools (this happened with my own brother) that promise a gleaming life when one graduates - these folks do deserve help.
BTW, my brother paid off his trade school debt and went to state college. I wish more folks would consider community or state college but there is a lot of competition for the high value (cost) colleges as parents and students think this is how they can get a leg up and get a better job when graduated. Plainly said, some folks are snobs for big name universities (I'm looking at you McKinsey, et al).
As this is Biden's last week in office, I think he should do what he feels is the best for the country in the limited time he has left. So, if that means giving a reprieve to some student loan holders, that's ok. We know Trump will give millions to the billionaires soon enough.
I’m sure reading a lot of “I’ve got mine, screw you” here” with not one word about what government handouts and other pork are costing the US taxpayer. There seems to be a lot of misinformation about the proposed debt forgiveness plan so if anyone is interested further, here is a link.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/08/24/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-student-loan-relief-for-borrowers-who-need-it-most/
Notice please there was a limit to the amount “forgiven” and a limit on families who were eligible. By the time republicans finished with all their overblown “facts” voters were outraged. Sound familiar? Same thing happened with the ACA that many now fear they will lose because they had no clue what they were told was Obamacare was, in fact, the ACA. Oops. Wash, rinse, repeat and people continue to fall for the hyperbole every time. Go figure. There once was a time, far, far in the past where a sound education was considered good for a country’s future and states made it easy to get one. In 1986 in-state tuition, fees, rm & board was $4,885.00 at UNC-CH, at the time one of the best non-ivy state schools in the country. Today tuition, fees, food and housing can run upward from $17,000 and anyone who has ever set foot on any campus knows there are myriad other expenses. We won’t even mention out of state costs. A lot has changed for so many since 1986. Just sayin’…….
I’m in the middle on whether to agree or disagree with your opinion on student loan forgiveness. Everyone must be responsible for the debt they incur but when a debt is unfair in many ways everyone becomes the victim. It should be questioned, and if necessary discharge by any and all legal means. There are many borrowers who are or were able to pay their loan(s) over time but defaulted. Yet there are many like me, a parent who signed a loan more than 29 years ago for a child to attend college, didn’t finish and the parent is stuck with a debt that the child can’t afford to pay or never made an effort to pay while the parents in their upper seventies struggled to survive and maintain some quality of life. Those individuals who complain about the student debt forgiveness, specifically members of congress and others are many of the same ones who accepted stimulus grant funds and never repaid them, yet they vote against student loan forgiveness. Does that seem right? Does it make sense that the same government can garnish a student loan debtor and take no actions against a member of congress and many others who defaulted or receive a forgiveness for the funds received from the same government we support. Try to resolve that situation using the Bill of Rights or Constitution. My debt balance hasn’t change by more than a couple of hundred dollars. No payments missed, like taxes it will be with me until I die and passed on to my estate.
John, We live in a wealthy society well capable of providing for our elderly. Sadly, we are currently and perhaps forever stuck in a place that elderly and everyone else are seen as commodities to be used in ever expanding systems to exploit a taxable base.
College is more expensive because the Department of education took over loans to "Make it easier to get a loan".
Houses are more expensive because Fanny and Freddie were created to "Make it easier to get a loan".
Medical is more expensive because Medicare and Insurance were create to "Make it easier to get care" and are in the middle and set negotiated "Not to exceed" prices.
We are exploited by ourselves. Smart, capable people doing a good job, but not recognizing our own role in these systems. These political parties act together to institute the systems of exploitation while pretended to fight over seemly intractable divisive problems.
Vote out the incumbents! If we can do this for a decade or so, it will weaken these forces. They are a result of humanity and can never be eliminated.