I own a Tesla and. Ford F150. I can separate the vehicle and the CEOs of the companies. Don’t give a damn who the CEO is, as long as the product is good.
I don’t particularly care for Musk. I don’t own a Tesla and probably would never buy one, not because I don’t care for Musk, but because I will likely never be willing to pay the price for one. I purchase cars and most other products based on quality and affordability, not on whether or not I like the CEO.
If it hurts his billionaire status to not drive a Tesla, then that is my goal. I almost bought one two years ago but BMW loyalty won out. Now, Tesla, never!
Have you ever looked into BMW's owning family's role during the Nazi era -- taking over scores of Jewish businesses and using tens of thousands of slave laborers at its factories during Hitler's Third Reich? I'm not suggesting you shouldn't buy a BMW, only suggesting consistency. Why is it reasonable to avoid one product because you find the owner abhorrent, but willingly embrace another product whose owners are also abhorrent?
I drive a Honda and a Ford so I'm not really in this ... but just to comment, I think it makes a difference whether the company's history going back decades or almost a century contains things like that, versus antipathy toward the current CEO.
Thanks, Bill! I own a little Ford stock, but man, I wish I’d bought Tesla shares in 2019 instead of the car. I’d probably be driving a Toyota—and sitting on a much bigger fortune!
Look into the mists of our history and you will see just a touch of slavery in our past. Of course, many politicians don’t watch that taught in our schools. What does that have to do with Ford today? Hmm…
I’m sure many people would steer clear (pardon the pun) of BMW and Mercedes if Nazi Germany was still a thing.
Old Henry(Ford), for all his assembly line ingenuity was a virulent racist and anti Semite. There was a lot of that going around then. Some things never change.
Yes, my Jewish friends have declared to never own any German made car, BME, Mercedes and Volkswagen. But is it better to own a Toyota from our arch enemy of WW2 ?
Never a Tesla, I vote with my pocketbook. the environmental impact of lithium batteries, explosions, and increased electricity demands negate any claims for reducing fossil fuel use. And I strongly disagree with how he is trying to dismantle our democracy.
Can you help me recognize which laws were made by an unelected bureaucracy?
The United States is both a democracy and a republic. It operates as a representative democracy where elected officials make decisions on behalf of the people, while also being defined as a republic due to the constitutional framework that governs it.
I originally asked a question you have yet to answer:
Can you help me recognize which laws were made by an unelected bureaucracy?
I don’t need a lecture on history of our founding fathers or what they intended. I had enough real college education on that when I went to a real college in the mid-70s.
Contrary to what you believe the book How Democracies Die paints a vivid picture of where we were a few years ago. We are now further down that path, so far that the WaPo can no longer use their Democracy Dies in Darkness tagline.
We are well down the rabbit hole Rome found itself in, just waiting for the fires to start while our own Nero learns to play the fiddle.
Wasn't "You will note that what the legislature passes is not specific law but a guiding vision (clean air, clean water, etc.) which is then handed over to the various affected bureaucracies who then write the rules, regulations, and therefore laws to be followed. These bureaucracies are not in and of the constitution but were created in the last 100 years for this purpose" the answer to your question?
Its like the the SEC having people from the industry it regulates, walk in and out writing the rules. Congress formed the SEC. They don't write the rules of the SEC.
Thing is, we already had very efficient and dedicated Inspectors General who caused a hell of a lot less damage to the government than we have been seeing since an unelected fElon and his merry bunch of 6 figure hacker bois were turned loose, amazingly, into the very agencies who might have threatened fElon or any of his many taxpayer funded contracts he currently has. Trump made it a point the other night that Musk was definitely in charge of DOGE and not the unsuspecting woman who had been named earlier. The cuts in the DOJ were so bad they couldn’t even field attorneys to defend the government in several of the lawsuits that have been brought against it for all the clearly illegal firings, the impoundment and god knows what all else are before the several lower courts.
You might be interested in this or not but it should open your eyes a bit.
It’s great that you’re thinking critically about where your money goes. There are real concerns with lithium mining, battery disposal, and energy demand—but the full picture is more nuanced.
Environmental Impact of Lithium Batteries
Lithium mining has environmental costs, no doubt. But compared to fossil fuel extraction—oil spills, methane leaks, and air pollution—EVs still come out ahead. Studies show that over their lifetime, EVs produce significantly fewer emissions than gas-powered cars, even when accounting for battery production. The International Energy Agency (IEA) reports that an EV’s carbon footprint is half that of a comparable gasoline car when factoring in the full life cycle, assuming a mix of renewable and non-renewable grid energy.
Explosions & Safety
EV fires make headlines, but the data tells a different story. Gasoline cars are 20 times more likely to catch fire than EVs, according to a study from AutoInsuranceEZ analyzing fire incidents per 100,000 vehicles, based on National Transportation Safety Board data. Tesla’s vehicles, in particular, have among the lowest fire rates per mile driven, as noted in their 2022 Impact Report.
Increased Electricity Demand
Yes, more EVs mean higher electricity demand, but studies show the grid can handle it. Many EV owners charge overnight when demand is low, and advancements in grid management, renewables, and battery storage are improving efficiency. According to an MIT study, even if all cars were electric today, the U.S. grid could adapt with less than a 15% increase in total electricity demand, manageable with planned infrastructure upgrades.
As for dismantling democracy—if you're referring to Musk’s actions, that’s a separate discussion. But if environmental impact is the concern, the data shows that EVs, while not perfect, are a step in the right direction compared to fossil fuels.
I have separated Musk the CEO from the man tasked by the President to follow the President's orders. I see him in his business light no different that CEO's of Ford, GM and Stellantis. He just happens to be CEO of other companies. He's been successful in his business interests. Will he be "successful" working for the government? Too early to tell. Too early to judge.
If that's a legitimate sentiment, then every Ford owner should have a similar bumper sticker saying "I bought this before I knew Henry Ford was crazy". Or, every Volkswagen owner should have a bumper sticker saying "I bought this before I knew Volkswagen poisoned millions through diesel emissions cheating".
I saw on You Tube(maybe Meidas Touch?)where some people are disguising their Teslas with insignias of other brands of cars. The less expensive models don’t have a particularly distinctive look about them.
I saw my first Cyber Truck close up. I had read about the purpose and design. It works for those that it is purposed for. It could be interesting to get a ride in one.
We own an S and an X and love them. I bought one because it is the safest car on the road. It is expensive and not practical for long trips. The mileage drops dramatically when it is cold. I can charge it at home, so I never need to go to a gas station or get routine maintenance. It is quiet to drive, has great acceleration, and a great cruise control.
I only need a charging station on long trips. Tesla navigation makes this a simple process by adding these stops along the way. This is generally about the time you need a bathroom break and/or eat.
Daily commute, the car is charged and warmed or up/cooled down on schedule every day.
No Tesla because I never learnt to drive more than nearly 60 years ago when I could (a growing trend in Europe at least it is now claimed!)
I own a Tesla and. Ford F150. I can separate the vehicle and the CEOs of the companies. Don’t give a damn who the CEO is, as long as the product is good.
John -- kudos on your consistency...mirrors my overall comment.
I don’t particularly care for Musk. I don’t own a Tesla and probably would never buy one, not because I don’t care for Musk, but because I will likely never be willing to pay the price for one. I purchase cars and most other products based on quality and affordability, not on whether or not I like the CEO.
If it hurts his billionaire status to not drive a Tesla, then that is my goal. I almost bought one two years ago but BMW loyalty won out. Now, Tesla, never!
Have you ever looked into BMW's owning family's role during the Nazi era -- taking over scores of Jewish businesses and using tens of thousands of slave laborers at its factories during Hitler's Third Reich? I'm not suggesting you shouldn't buy a BMW, only suggesting consistency. Why is it reasonable to avoid one product because you find the owner abhorrent, but willingly embrace another product whose owners are also abhorrent?
I drive a Honda and a Ford so I'm not really in this ... but just to comment, I think it makes a difference whether the company's history going back decades or almost a century contains things like that, versus antipathy toward the current CEO.
Thanks, Bill! I own a little Ford stock, but man, I wish I’d bought Tesla shares in 2019 instead of the car. I’d probably be driving a Toyota—and sitting on a much bigger fortune!
Look into the mists of our history and you will see just a touch of slavery in our past. Of course, many politicians don’t watch that taught in our schools. What does that have to do with Ford today? Hmm…
I’m sure many people would steer clear (pardon the pun) of BMW and Mercedes if Nazi Germany was still a thing.
Old Henry(Ford), for all his assembly line ingenuity was a virulent racist and anti Semite. There was a lot of that going around then. Some things never change.
Yes, my Jewish friends have declared to never own any German made car, BME, Mercedes and Volkswagen. But is it better to own a Toyota from our arch enemy of WW2 ?
“No Tesla - don’t like Musk” doesn’t even begin to describe it.
Never a Tesla, I vote with my pocketbook. the environmental impact of lithium batteries, explosions, and increased electricity demands negate any claims for reducing fossil fuel use. And I strongly disagree with how he is trying to dismantle our democracy.
Can you help me recognize which laws were made by an unelected bureaucracy?
The United States is both a democracy and a republic. It operates as a representative democracy where elected officials make decisions on behalf of the people, while also being defined as a republic due to the constitutional framework that governs it.
I originally asked a question you have yet to answer:
Can you help me recognize which laws were made by an unelected bureaucracy?
I don’t need a lecture on history of our founding fathers or what they intended. I had enough real college education on that when I went to a real college in the mid-70s.
Contrary to what you believe the book How Democracies Die paints a vivid picture of where we were a few years ago. We are now further down that path, so far that the WaPo can no longer use their Democracy Dies in Darkness tagline.
We are well down the rabbit hole Rome found itself in, just waiting for the fires to start while our own Nero learns to play the fiddle.
Don’t fall for it! You’ll never 'answer his question' because he’s not looking for an answer—just an argument.
Answer my question. It’s not a trick. If you answer Iwill accept your answer - as long as it is a concise answer to my question. Do not obfuscate.
Butters…you obfuscate and don’t answer, just like a politician.
Darrell,
Wasn't "You will note that what the legislature passes is not specific law but a guiding vision (clean air, clean water, etc.) which is then handed over to the various affected bureaucracies who then write the rules, regulations, and therefore laws to be followed. These bureaucracies are not in and of the constitution but were created in the last 100 years for this purpose" the answer to your question?
Its like the the SEC having people from the industry it regulates, walk in and out writing the rules. Congress formed the SEC. They don't write the rules of the SEC.
Rome was both a republic and an empire, with the transition occurring when power shifted from the Senate to the emperor.
Athens' democracy officially ended in 322 B.C., when Macedonia imposed an oligarchic government on Athens after defeating the city-state in battle.
Thing is, we already had very efficient and dedicated Inspectors General who caused a hell of a lot less damage to the government than we have been seeing since an unelected fElon and his merry bunch of 6 figure hacker bois were turned loose, amazingly, into the very agencies who might have threatened fElon or any of his many taxpayer funded contracts he currently has. Trump made it a point the other night that Musk was definitely in charge of DOGE and not the unsuspecting woman who had been named earlier. The cuts in the DOJ were so bad they couldn’t even field attorneys to defend the government in several of the lawsuits that have been brought against it for all the clearly illegal firings, the impoundment and god knows what all else are before the several lower courts.
You might be interested in this or not but it should open your eyes a bit.
https://youtu.be/NcpZ0g5nLlw?si=KMO05kWh8M6bNLW5
So there’s not all that much waste, fraud or….whatever after all. Oh yeah, the maths didn’t math either.
Marie - I strongly agree with all your sentences.
Marie,
It’s great that you’re thinking critically about where your money goes. There are real concerns with lithium mining, battery disposal, and energy demand—but the full picture is more nuanced.
Environmental Impact of Lithium Batteries
Lithium mining has environmental costs, no doubt. But compared to fossil fuel extraction—oil spills, methane leaks, and air pollution—EVs still come out ahead. Studies show that over their lifetime, EVs produce significantly fewer emissions than gas-powered cars, even when accounting for battery production. The International Energy Agency (IEA) reports that an EV’s carbon footprint is half that of a comparable gasoline car when factoring in the full life cycle, assuming a mix of renewable and non-renewable grid energy.
Explosions & Safety
EV fires make headlines, but the data tells a different story. Gasoline cars are 20 times more likely to catch fire than EVs, according to a study from AutoInsuranceEZ analyzing fire incidents per 100,000 vehicles, based on National Transportation Safety Board data. Tesla’s vehicles, in particular, have among the lowest fire rates per mile driven, as noted in their 2022 Impact Report.
Increased Electricity Demand
Yes, more EVs mean higher electricity demand, but studies show the grid can handle it. Many EV owners charge overnight when demand is low, and advancements in grid management, renewables, and battery storage are improving efficiency. According to an MIT study, even if all cars were electric today, the U.S. grid could adapt with less than a 15% increase in total electricity demand, manageable with planned infrastructure upgrades.
As for dismantling democracy—if you're referring to Musk’s actions, that’s a separate discussion. But if environmental impact is the concern, the data shows that EVs, while not perfect, are a step in the right direction compared to fossil fuels.
I would like to drive a Tesla, can't afford it. I like Musk.
Bill, I love today’s image! Priceless.
I have separated Musk the CEO from the man tasked by the President to follow the President's orders. I see him in his business light no different that CEO's of Ford, GM and Stellantis. He just happens to be CEO of other companies. He's been successful in his business interests. Will he be "successful" working for the government? Too early to tell. Too early to judge.
Bumper sticker seen on a car in Vermont "I bought this before we knew Elon was crazy".
If that's a legitimate sentiment, then every Ford owner should have a similar bumper sticker saying "I bought this before I knew Henry Ford was crazy". Or, every Volkswagen owner should have a bumper sticker saying "I bought this before I knew Volkswagen poisoned millions through diesel emissions cheating".
Henry is not alive today; musk is.
I saw on You Tube(maybe Meidas Touch?)where some people are disguising their Teslas with insignias of other brands of cars. The less expensive models don’t have a particularly distinctive look about them.
Tesla is a car, not a political statement
Musk is a politician, nothing more- nothing less.
Neither one occupies any real time or space in my brain.
I’m sorry.
My next car will be an electric (or solar?) but not a Tesla.
I saw my first Cyber Truck close up. I had read about the purpose and design. It works for those that it is purposed for. It could be interesting to get a ride in one.
As long as gasoline is available I won't be buying any pure electric vehicles. Well, maybe a golf cart.
Hybrids are great. I’ve had one in the past. Mainly good for lower speed driving and you don’t need a charging station for a trip.
I drove a hybrid for a short while and loved it.
I have my popcorn going as I watch the collective heads exploding over Musk.
We own an S and an X and love them. I bought one because it is the safest car on the road. It is expensive and not practical for long trips. The mileage drops dramatically when it is cold. I can charge it at home, so I never need to go to a gas station or get routine maintenance. It is quiet to drive, has great acceleration, and a great cruise control.
It is a car, not a political statement.
Yeah, the never having to go to a gas station is one of the hardest things to explain to others.
Butters…do you own one? Let’s drive from NY to Maralago and see how it works out.
Darrell, I’ve had mine since December 2019 and have road-tripped all over the country—zero issues! Well, zero related to driving an electric car.
You have to look for a charging station like a non-tesla person would have to look for a gas station.
I only need a charging station on long trips. Tesla navigation makes this a simple process by adding these stops along the way. This is generally about the time you need a bathroom break and/or eat.
Daily commute, the car is charged and warmed or up/cooled down on schedule every day.
I’m happy for you.