That definitely pushed a button for me. In the early 2000s, my husband and I owned a bar and grill in St. Pete Beach. (It was one of those things people did as a result 9/11, not wanting to leave this world with regrets.) If you aren't aware, the average age in that part of the world is older than dirt. Look it up. Most weekday afternoons, we had a lively crowd of curmudgeons who enjoyed sitting around the bar while I read questions from Trivial Pursuit cards. There were plenty of disputes.
I've often thought about how different that scenario would have been just a few years later. It was good fun to argue that which could not be definitively proven. And in that environment it is ever so clear how Guinness came up with the idea to publish a book of records.
If you can set aside the negative aspects of the internet for a moment, it is interesting to ponder the benefits. Oftentimes, the benefits come with a price. For example, the debates Bill noted often included vigorous conversation and, yes, even an application of thought and logic. You had to get your hands on an encyclopedia or other recognized source to prove your point.
Now, a quick search effortlessly gives you almost any definitive answer. The corollary is that we often attach less value to those things that are too easy. Moreover, the internet is also a hodgepodge of pseudo and “alternate” facts. It requires as much or even more effort to sort through fact or fiction, real vs. made up, and legitimate vs.illegitimate sources.
Are we better off? That depends. AI is greater complexity. From my experience we seem to argue more with exponentially greater impact on our social structure than we did when drinking in a pub with record books as the only arbiter of the truth.
Meaningless arguments are what bonds two (or more) people together. Eventually someone would venture to the library, look it up, and when you got back together, have a good laugh at those who were wrong.
Now in the age of Google, the only arguments left are philosophical. And those are divisive as there is no single point of truth.
I am a Boomer and I remember my first encounter with a Millennial and his smartphone. As 4 Boomers and 1 Gen X and 1 Millennial (with phone) tried to converse, every time a question came up the M answered it using his phone — end of discussion/conversation. This scenario happened so many times that day that I concluded the smart phone would soon kill conversation and social interaction skills.
I take credit for having purchased the last set of print encyclopedias. Obviously I'm a boomer. But if we all know so much now, why aren't we any more productive?
There are still places tucked away where the cell phone and Google don’t enter into the conversation and the old tried and true disagreement with civil tongues takes place. It’s a joy to behold and to occasionally play a part in it.
I’d tell you where this happens but then it could get posted on social media and lose it’s identity (think small town MT).
I think you got that wrong about generation X being the first generation to "cross the digital divide." As a "post war" generation member, I can recall well paper and pencil games, then pong came along, and, unless I am mistaken, by the tail end of your generation X birth period, 1980, computers were on folks desks.
Loved the article except for the paid link to discover if blue is in the Bible...I’ve debated (with myself) in times past about how I feel about not paying for (good to great) writing content. Hope your time away is relaxing and refreshing.
The other good news is there are still trivia experts out there and all the phone checkers do with them is validate their knowledge. I’m not one, but I’ve known a few and I’m always amazed by their abilities. Hope you’re enjoying your break Bill.
Ah, this is a topic near and dear to me. For many years now I have referred to our smart phones as "Anti-Bullshit Devices," mostly because they have eliminated the art of "B.S." And, if you doubt that B.S. is an art, just picture two old guys arguing baseball stats when one says to the other, "I remember when Maury Wills stole 124 bases in 1961. And, I was even there when he broke Ty Cobbs record of 98!" Hearing this, the other old guy says "Ah, bullshit, Maury only stole 104 bases, and it was in 1962. And, you couldn't have been there when he broke Ty Cobbs record - which was actually 96 - because he broke the record while playing the Cards in St. Louis, and you've never been to St. Louis," and from there, the B.S. continues, back and forth. So, yes indeed, the true art of bullshitting began it's slow death with the advent of the smart phone.
Ah Bill - many times lately, I've missed the "old days" when we had so much opportunity to discuss and debate the trivial. I often feel a little deflated when someone so quickly reaches for their phone to get the easy answer instead of letting some of us stretch back into the crevices of our brains for those things we think we know. So perhaps there's a happy medium. Maybe when gathering together, we need to set the ground rules and expectations for how we're feeling that day... "tonight, instant Google answers are fine" vs. "Nope - no phones for 15 minutes per deep and probing question. Instead at this dinner table we're going to exercise our brains, debate and and maybe learn something we didn't know about each other... then we can get that 'instant' answer to find out who has their heads up you know where."
There is definitely something to be said about those days. It was our first foray into learning how to do research. Now no one knows how to do actual research. Gen Z thinks Wikipedia is where facts are found. We also lost the ability to argue without coming to blows, because we got so much practice at it back then. Now people think an argument HAS to end in people not talking, a fistfight or, worse, deadly force. I think about the movie "Wall-E" a lot these days. The obese people sitting on those floating chairs. Everything is done for them to the point where they don't even know how to walk anymore. Are we headed there? Our groceries are delivered, we can get an EKG on our cell phones, there are people you can hire to do almost anything, and, of course, remote work. We never have to leave our seats. Hell, we're already there!
That definitely pushed a button for me. In the early 2000s, my husband and I owned a bar and grill in St. Pete Beach. (It was one of those things people did as a result 9/11, not wanting to leave this world with regrets.) If you aren't aware, the average age in that part of the world is older than dirt. Look it up. Most weekday afternoons, we had a lively crowd of curmudgeons who enjoyed sitting around the bar while I read questions from Trivial Pursuit cards. There were plenty of disputes.
I've often thought about how different that scenario would have been just a few years later. It was good fun to argue that which could not be definitively proven. And in that environment it is ever so clear how Guinness came up with the idea to publish a book of records.
If you can set aside the negative aspects of the internet for a moment, it is interesting to ponder the benefits. Oftentimes, the benefits come with a price. For example, the debates Bill noted often included vigorous conversation and, yes, even an application of thought and logic. You had to get your hands on an encyclopedia or other recognized source to prove your point.
Now, a quick search effortlessly gives you almost any definitive answer. The corollary is that we often attach less value to those things that are too easy. Moreover, the internet is also a hodgepodge of pseudo and “alternate” facts. It requires as much or even more effort to sort through fact or fiction, real vs. made up, and legitimate vs.illegitimate sources.
Are we better off? That depends. AI is greater complexity. From my experience we seem to argue more with exponentially greater impact on our social structure than we did when drinking in a pub with record books as the only arbiter of the truth.
Meaningless arguments are what bonds two (or more) people together. Eventually someone would venture to the library, look it up, and when you got back together, have a good laugh at those who were wrong.
Now in the age of Google, the only arguments left are philosophical. And those are divisive as there is no single point of truth.
Do I miss the old days? No, but yeah.
I am a Boomer and I remember my first encounter with a Millennial and his smartphone. As 4 Boomers and 1 Gen X and 1 Millennial (with phone) tried to converse, every time a question came up the M answered it using his phone — end of discussion/conversation. This scenario happened so many times that day that I concluded the smart phone would soon kill conversation and social interaction skills.
I take credit for having purchased the last set of print encyclopedias. Obviously I'm a boomer. But if we all know so much now, why aren't we any more productive?
Dave Barry once wrote that thanks to the Internet we can waste time faster than ever before.
There are still places tucked away where the cell phone and Google don’t enter into the conversation and the old tried and true disagreement with civil tongues takes place. It’s a joy to behold and to occasionally play a part in it.
I’d tell you where this happens but then it could get posted on social media and lose it’s identity (think small town MT).
I think you got that wrong about generation X being the first generation to "cross the digital divide." As a "post war" generation member, I can recall well paper and pencil games, then pong came along, and, unless I am mistaken, by the tail end of your generation X birth period, 1980, computers were on folks desks.
Loved the article except for the paid link to discover if blue is in the Bible...I’ve debated (with myself) in times past about how I feel about not paying for (good to great) writing content. Hope your time away is relaxing and refreshing.
The other good news is there are still trivia experts out there and all the phone checkers do with them is validate their knowledge. I’m not one, but I’ve known a few and I’m always amazed by their abilities. Hope you’re enjoying your break Bill.
Ah, this is a topic near and dear to me. For many years now I have referred to our smart phones as "Anti-Bullshit Devices," mostly because they have eliminated the art of "B.S." And, if you doubt that B.S. is an art, just picture two old guys arguing baseball stats when one says to the other, "I remember when Maury Wills stole 124 bases in 1961. And, I was even there when he broke Ty Cobbs record of 98!" Hearing this, the other old guy says "Ah, bullshit, Maury only stole 104 bases, and it was in 1962. And, you couldn't have been there when he broke Ty Cobbs record - which was actually 96 - because he broke the record while playing the Cards in St. Louis, and you've never been to St. Louis," and from there, the B.S. continues, back and forth. So, yes indeed, the true art of bullshitting began it's slow death with the advent of the smart phone.
Here’s a challenge for you, Bill. Please direct me to any source that can tell me definitively that Michael Jordan is the GOAT.
Ah Bill - many times lately, I've missed the "old days" when we had so much opportunity to discuss and debate the trivial. I often feel a little deflated when someone so quickly reaches for their phone to get the easy answer instead of letting some of us stretch back into the crevices of our brains for those things we think we know. So perhaps there's a happy medium. Maybe when gathering together, we need to set the ground rules and expectations for how we're feeling that day... "tonight, instant Google answers are fine" vs. "Nope - no phones for 15 minutes per deep and probing question. Instead at this dinner table we're going to exercise our brains, debate and and maybe learn something we didn't know about each other... then we can get that 'instant' answer to find out who has their heads up you know where."
There is definitely something to be said about those days. It was our first foray into learning how to do research. Now no one knows how to do actual research. Gen Z thinks Wikipedia is where facts are found. We also lost the ability to argue without coming to blows, because we got so much practice at it back then. Now people think an argument HAS to end in people not talking, a fistfight or, worse, deadly force. I think about the movie "Wall-E" a lot these days. The obese people sitting on those floating chairs. Everything is done for them to the point where they don't even know how to walk anymore. Are we headed there? Our groceries are delivered, we can get an EKG on our cell phones, there are people you can hire to do almost anything, and, of course, remote work. We never have to leave our seats. Hell, we're already there!