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Ian Forsyth's avatar

The most obvious use of robotics is in food production. Robotics to work fields / greenhouses and plant seeds or seedings. And spray insecticides and pesticides. And harvest crops. Incredible work being done in Netherlands on these areas right now. https://tracxn.com/d/explore/robotics-in-agriculture-startups-in-netherlands/__R1hYGGrmidECAjHV_3B6u9sMaz51bDpCvIaeLHZVyEQ/companies

The way of the present and future. Which will displace many from field labour work. The other side of mass deployment of robots is what will people do and how will they survive.

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Darrell's avatar

Mr. Asimov was a smart fellow.

I have a few questions: Why do these things need to be so tall? How many people are going to pony up the price of a car to own one? What happens to all the people out of jobs? In simple, non-immigrant terms, where will teenagers work part time when fast food is taken over?

Based on Trump’s latest declarations during an interview this week with Bloomberg News I suppose children and teens can switch to working in factories, replacing full time adult workers for lower pay.

Sigh…

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Jim Weiss's avatar

The Laws of Robotics (extended version, with drum solo) are a great idea, but let's face it: Robot developers and their paying customers will not abide by them, and even if they are legally mandated, users will find ways to hack the devices to circumvent the laws. Especially Americans. We do not like being told what to do. Seriously, we can't even agree that keeping high-powered weapons out of the hands of lunatics should be a priority.

Asimov envisioned a universe in which most people were governed by logic, even the people who weren't so nice to R. Daneel Olivaw. Factor in basic greed, and governments' desire to build bigger and better weapons of war, and things could get out of hand in a hurry. We can look at the spread of AI as a precursor to what comes next.

This, in other words, is why we can't have nice things.

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Christine Paige's avatar

Your entire message today screams FEAR. Not that I am all for the robots team, I just think that with that emotion at the forefront almost nothing good or creative can evolve. They’re not a done deal yet so as you say…perhaps with a slightly different tone; don’t panic sparky, no one is out to get you, again.

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SPW's avatar

Robots are a done deal just ask auto workers or members of the DOD or many industries that count on repetitive motion work that used to disable human hands. Last time I looked, some were being used in Japan in hotels. Maybe that’s changed by now but a Google search that I’m too lazy to do might yield an answer. What Musk is envisioning is a human type that will do everything but breathe for you; ok I exaggerate a bit. That’s why the bit of hype in what Bill wrote I think. Also notice the difference in the initial prototype(human in a robot costume)and today’s concept. Seems to go along with Musk’s overinflated ego; bigger, taller and better than better. As long as any human is the creator of these things, be they walking around, driving around or heaven forbid, flying around we’re screwed. They are or will be only as good as the information(computers)driving them. And who programs computers?

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Christine Paige's avatar

I am an avid follower of Boston Dynamics and otherwise as well realize that robotics are real, in the money machine of industry as well as surgical procedures saving vital organs and lives. What I was trying to say was that FEAR is a detrimental response to a big picture that isn’t necessarily another Hollywood drama created by overly-hyped media panic akin to H.G. Wells’ War of the Worlds. I don’t need you to agree, nor do I need to have the last word. Engage in the fear if that is your trajectory; promote it, if that is your journey. Stop it from happening– we all feel purpose, I respect that.

My outlook is not based on fear. I do my best to relieve myself of it! Fear is like kindling under a shaky foundation of the future as each individual sees it. I simply voiced that the message was fueling fear and created an unbalanced reality compared to mine.

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SPW's avatar

I don’t fear robots. In and of themselves, they’re harmless and indeed, are used for good. It’s the humans that drive them that tend to create issues with technology as we’ve witnessed over the last 25 yrs or so. That’s all.

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dj l's avatar

as I've said many times, I've been a scifi fan since middle school (called Jr High back in those days). Asimov was an early writer I liked 'cause he wrote short stories in SciFi Magazine.

I'm a member of a book club & I guess I'm the 'resident' scifi contributor. We all sign-up for a month w/ a book to host & my month will be January. I selected "I, Robot" by Asimov. Perfect timing :-). I have to select books that folks who don't normally read scifi might like & I think this one will work nicely, BUT I told them the book is NOT the movie.

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Greg Colley's avatar

OK, Bill. No Elon Musk stories for at least the next two weeks. There has to be more interesting stories out there than the rantings of a mad man.

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Darrell's avatar

Oh,Thank You!

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Bruce's avatar

The universal shut down will be misused on day one, just as Asimov's second law would be. Obviously, we can't have these things stopping in the middle of intersections or on escalators, but would we be OK with a fearful stranger keeping one from saving our child (as it did in the I, Robot movie)?

If they're not physically stronger than a small child, they're not going to be of much use. I imagine a wonderful benefit would be helping the infirm, which might require a great deal of strength.

Yielding to humans is another impractical one. I guess they'll need their own checkout lane at the grocery store? (Obviously we won't have checkout lanes at that time, but you get the point.) If we would allow an assistant or home helper to buy our stuff in the wild, why shouldn't a similarly used robot get the same treatment?

You can be certain that they're going to look like humans eventually, but I guess this limitation makes sense at first while we figure out their place in our society. It's not like we haven't seen sentient humanoid robots coming for a long time. Companionship might be a killer application for our loneliness epidemic, and we're hardwired to connect with human faces and behaviors, so it will become harder and harder to differentiate. Eventually, the distinction will blur completely. Check out the original Twilight Zone episode "The Lonely." That blew my mind as a child and started my lifelong fascination with AI and humanoid robots.

100% guaranteed that "robot rights" will become a thing just as "animal rights" did.

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Darrell's avatar

But animal rights are a legitimate thing…

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Bruce's avatar

They weren't legitimate until Peter Singer and others invented the concept. I promise you that animal rights are going to be a cakewalk philosophically and legally compared to sentient robots. At 60, I may be too old to see that day, but I'll be close!

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Darrell's avatar

Animal rights don’t have to be invented by someone, although it was good to acknowledge them. They existed as long as humans and animals have existed. But I do agree on your position on robots.

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Bruce's avatar

Prior to 1975's "Animal Liberation" by Peter Singer, the concept of animal rights was nebulous to say the least. He coined the term "speciesism" and helped usher in a new era where animals were considered more than property. Laws and minds started changing after that. "Rights" is a legal term as well as an idea, so animals very much did not always have legal rights. It's only in my lifetime that the phrase "animal rights" even existed in our society.

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Darrell's avatar

You missed my point completely. Animals have “rights” because they are living, breathing creatures.

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Bruce's avatar

No, I understood your point from the beginning. However, it seems likely that you have missed MY point completely. I absolutely agree with you. Read my comments and you will see that I am talking about animal rights being legitimized in the minds of the public and in the law. I happen to agree that animals SHOULD have been treated as conscious, sentient beings by virtue of their existence but that's certainly not how they were treated for thousands of years. If you were born just 30 years earlier and talked about animal rights, people might have tried to have you committed.

Also, the Bible says that we should be good stewards of animals but clearly admonishes us to treat them as property and even encourages ritualistic killing, so that doesn't help very much, either. With the exception of our favorites (dogs, cats, dolphins, whales, cute animals, etc.), most people still don't see animals as deserving of rights. Sad, but true!

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Rick Dowling's avatar

I’m 6’5” so I figure I can take them.

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Bill Murphy Jr.'s avatar

Can you take 3 of them working together?

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Rick Dowling's avatar

Depends on if they are in shape.

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Bruce's avatar

The focus on height is interesting. Do people really think that a few more inches is what's going to make a robot physically superior? Ever watched Battlebots? Most of them are only a foot or two high and they could likely kill a heavyweight MMA fighter in seconds. And in the animal kingdom it's weight, not height, that confers the most advantage (although with obesity in humans that's probably not a big help for most people).

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Rick Dowling's avatar

My far shorter than me dad always used to say - don’t confuse size with strength.

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Bruce's avatar

My brother has a scar on his throat from ear to ear because he failed to heed that advice.

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Seattle Mom's avatar

Robots are already among us in industry But we need to ensure that we want humanoid robots in our society and if we do have android “friends “, what are the ethics of owning them? In other words, if the thing is smart enough to follow commands, who has the right to command it? And how long until it chooses not to follow?

It’s one thing to have a machine take over repetitive tasks, another to assume it will care for your children as you would like.

Be careful what you wish for

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J. D.'s avatar

The book, "I, Robot" should be read and maybe watch the movie, for shits and giggles, before we get too excited about this technology. Most people are familiar with StarTrek/TNG's Mr. Data. Does anyone think this level of robot (android?) will be possible in the forseeable future? Really? Remember, that story takes place a couple of hundred years the 23rd or 24th century. Don't hold your breath. Elon Musk seems to have a few screws loose anyway. He's not the admirable person of the early years of this electric cars. I think his position of the world's richest man has gone to his head...he thinks a little bit too much of himself. More and more of us pleebs, not so much...anymore.

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Bruce's avatar

I think Data-like androids (but with far better appearance and sound) are inevitable, but not in the next 50 years. I've been following AI and androids for 48 years and predictions are always too optimistic. Still, when you consider Boston Dynamics' robot athleticism, the human-like faces of Ameca and Jiajia, artifical intelligence, and Musk's robot aesthetics, we're already in the early stages of a breakthrough in this technology. I'm excited to stay alive long enough to see future advances, but I'm guessing in 40 years (when I'm 100), we'll be at a stage where real-world applications will be practical but certainly not passing as human. Also, there will be more fear than acceptance. Once they fully integrate into our lives as companions, helpers, heroes, and yes, even lovers, then the issue of robot rights will be hugely consequential.

I agree with your assessment of Musk. Like Rudy Giuliani, if he had only coasted on his prior reputation he would have been revered forever, but at least Musk is still out there pushing innovation along with his political BS and overhyped timelines.

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J. D.'s avatar

The "I, Robot" book should be read by more people and maybe watch the movie too, but especially read the book. So many people love Mr. Data of StarTrek/TNG they think robots (androids?) will be like him, affable, and kind of amusing in his wanting to be human. Who knows where this rather new (historically speaking) technology will go? For the forseeable future probably not that far. Remember, that particular StarTrek series takes place a couple of hundred years from now, like in the 23rd or 24th century. Don't hold your breath. Elon Musk has a few screws loose. He's not the admirable Musk of the early years of his electric cars. Enough time has passed that much more information is out there about him. People generally have come to think of him differently. All his money has gone to his head, as the richest person on the planet, probably in history, but most certainly now. He thinks a bit too much of himself. As for me, not so much any more; he can go pound dirt as far as I'm concerned.

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dj l's avatar

yep, as I said, I picked "I, Robot" for my book club in January - before Musk released this, so it'll be very timely.

and yes, Musk has 'a few screws loose' - his bio shows a pretty awful upbringing, especially his dad did some awful stuff. Musk is definitely in the genius range.

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J. D.'s avatar

"Musk is definitely in the genius range." That's no excuse... ;-) He also stole Tesla from two other men...Here ya go: https://meaww.com/elon-musk-tesla-cofounder-lawsuit-settlement-original-founded-martin-eberhard-origin-story-tesla

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dj l's avatar

About a week ago I saw this - I'm sure others have seen it, & in Japan for sure. In time for Christmas gifts - well, for some, at $400... not just another computer pet

https://www.moflin.com/

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dj l's avatar

so much already being done by 'robotics', maybe not totally humonoid, but these arms are close...

https://invest.misorobotics.com/?utm_source=dmrmisolandingpage&utm_medium=partnership180-353_10-17&tnames=misopartnership180-353_10-17_16853974454

certainly not humonoid, but the show BattleBots has been enjoyed by thousands for years & especially got a lot of young boys interested in robotics, & girls too who watched the show & saw that teams sometimes had female members:

https://www.discoveryplus.com/show/battlebots

I watched some years ago & usually laughed

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Cathy Kemelmacher's avatar

I am actually convinced that those are humans in robot suits, but I think the singularity is something to seriously consider, and the list of precautions you provide should definiitely be put in place. I am glad that Musk's stock went down, though, The man is dangerously crazy no matter how creative "his" inventions are, (I put "his" in quotes because I am pretty sure he doesn't perform the actual work behind creating his dreams; a lot of engineers and laborers are the actual creators.) I just can't stand the man.

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Bryan Nelson's avatar

An alternative thought to Bill’s. I see a huge need in home healthcare for seniors that Optimus could fill. If Optimus could be programmed to cook, clean, do laundry, etc. at an initial cost of $30,000 it would be huge savings and help to millions of seniors. The cost for in home healthcare is way north of $5000/month. I sincerely hope the Optimus could be ready for me in 10-15 years from now. If you have ever had to be a full time or part time caregiver for a family member you will favorably relate to my position.

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Darrell's avatar

My mom is in a quite nice assisted living facility for right at $5K/month. Three quality meals a day (I eat with her on occasion) activities daily with piano and band entertainment, attentive staff, just a really nice place to live. She needs relationships with real caregivers, aka, humans.

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Bruce's avatar

$5k a month is amazingly cheap. I'm glad you found a good one for that price. However, people used to balk at the benefits of pets over human companionship but many people prefer them. I predict that human caregivers will be vastly superior for many more decades but eventually the advantages will fade and people will not only accept androids but embrace them as companions and even lovers. It will be interesting to see how we handle the philosophical and legal implications of that!

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Darrell's avatar

I like dogs and a couple of people! I can also agree with the rest of your comment; everything adapts and evolves.

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J. D.'s avatar

Another movie just popped into my head...the 2001, Spielberg tome: A.I.~Artificial Intelligence. It's not quite the happy-clappy future you guys think will come about through human hubris. Face it we have a tendency to rise to that height...remember, "Pride goeth before the fall." Between those two visions I don't know which one is worse. At 79yo, I'm glad I won't be around to see what idiocy humans will come up with...even if I make it to a hundred. We have enough idiocy going on right now to last any normal person 10 lifetimes. Keep in mind there are still thousands of nuclear weapons lying around, or has that fact conveniently been tucked away in the dark recesses of everyone's consciousness? P.S. I love dogs too.

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