Good morning. I am a teacher. Admin asks occassionally, but especially since we are quitting in droves, what would make us more "productive". A 4 day work week. It was proven that during the Pandemic we were considered babysitters. We could close a lot of things, but school, never. What would people do with their children? Who would babysit them? They would rather have us sit in an environment where we were coughed on, puked on, got sick ourselves, than have someone take the children and let us stay safe while the kids were kept safe. I was born a teacher. I am a teacher. I have been a teacher, for 28 years. I am looking for another job. Because I can not longer handle the one thing that I am and love. Because teaching isn't a job. It is who I am. But, the pandemic taught be I was really all along a babysitter. This is a very sad commentary.
I'm saddened by the change in the dynamics of teaching, and how it is impacting you. As a child, my life was transformed and renewed by my 5th grade teacher. My youngest son is a grade school teacher, who longed to be one since he was in grade school. Now, he also is looking to get out after 8 years. I don't have a good solution for the problem(s). However, I wish you well on your search for your next career.
Not sure I understand what that means “to be a babysitter”? If you are teaching new and dynamic material, how do you end up being a babysitter? My Mom taught for 32 years. Never felt like a babysitter. Still got calls from students 15-320 years after she left teaching
When the focus of schools during a pandemic is to remain open so parents can work it sure seems like school is more of a daycare to those parents so both parents can work than the kids education.
Isn’t that the point Darrell? Teachers teach and the parents go to work to pay the real estate taxes that pay the teachers? Whether you rent or own, you are contributing to the taxes paid and the teachers getting paid.
Kristine, sorry that you can’t have a conversation without dismissing the other side. In the City of Chicago 52.52% of my taxes go to CPS. Yet test scores show the following: 25% elementary at or above proficiency, 24% in middle school and 21% in HS. So what is the right maiming to pay for ineptitude??
I can understand your point, do you think smaller class rooms would help?
Our schools have 20-22 including special needs and various levels of spectrum with learning challenges. That is a BIG added challenge and burn out factor to “accommodate” and make lesson plans, plus disruption in the classroom of K-5.
But as many said, teachers pay and how towns districts spend money on the school varies all over the country. $30k-$80 is a big gap.
I do not have the one size fits all answer, but if we ask enough questions and get a REAL dialogue going perhaps we can get positive results. Clearly things needs to be changed and adjusted. Please do not quit, lead and be an example!
It would be a great article if Bill could follow up and dig deeper. Regards and thanks
It seems counterintuitive that you can get more done in 4 days than you can in 5 but the whole remote work environment has changed our culture and proven that people can be just as productive working "unsupervised" as they were sitting behind a computer at the office. I would bet that we're not the only ones who accumulate those those "extra" hours but that's one of the benefits to the company for offering up the freedom that comes with the less demanding work culture. It really goes back to the workforce and if you've hired good people, their work ethic will deliver results, regardless of the number of hours they're required to work. I would imagine pay adjustments would work itself out for new hires, if there was to be a change. I know our company is getting more creative with our recruiting options in order to attract more and better candidates.
It’s Parkinson’s Law where effort is a function over time. When you have a lot of time, you spend a lot of time. When you have a little time you magically grind it out in less time. The carrot to work harder and smarter is the day off 🙌
I did this with my company in Tennessee in the early 2000s — we called it summer hours and then it became the norm and was TOTALLY AWESOME!
You just have to set expectations with clients and remind them frequently.
Unfortunately, in California anything over 8 hours in a single day is OT — so the best we can offer now is a 32 hours per week
I'm curious if the 4 day work week study includes a job stress factor. Basically, if you are in a high stress job would cutting the hours back only serve to increase the stress? Of course, I don't mean to imply that longer hours reduces stress. Quite the opposite. My job is done with deadlines. The end of the month and end of year can get quite stressful. If my hours were lessened, I can imagine the stress level increasing geometrically. It's a nice thought though.
“Among people making over $100,000 it's still high: 47%.”
I can understand low income living paycheck to paycheck - it’s basic economics. People that earn $100K+, however, live that way by choice. I have no sympathy for those people. We stopped living that way by the time we were 30. We didn’t take fancy vacations and weren’t house poor. We saved money and were still able to contribute to a 401k plan.
Darrell, I agree. My words exactly when I read 47% for those making over 100k, a choice for sure! In fact, you can make choices to insure you won’t live paycheck to paycheck on incomes substantially lower than 100k. For low income individuals, it’s understandable. Most of them don’t have much choice, but others do.
Last summer, I changed my business's work schedule to 8am-5pm Mon-Thu and 9am-Noon on (our usual casual) Fridays as a trial. It's been so popular with our team we have adopted those hours permanently. As the owner, I had been trying to consciously stop working weekends and after hours for my own health and wellness. Even though technically I could take off as much time as I want, somehow with the office "closed" Friday afternoons I, too have given myself the gift of what feels like a 3-day weekend. Now my next goal for 2023 is to work a 3-day week. I can't wait.
Last summer I changed our business hours to 8am-5pm Mon-Thu and 9am-Noon on Fri. It was so popular with me and my team they are now permanent. I am the owner so technically I could take as much time off as I want, but somehow the structure of being closed Fri afternoon makes me feel like I have a 3 day weekend. I've been working the equivalent of 7 days a week for 12 years. (entrepreneur life - which I loved) but It wasn't healthy. My next goal for myself is to work a 3-day week. I feel like I have a new lease on life. It's wonderful.
No two industries nor two employers are the same. If you study 4 day weeks against 5 day weeks, among different fields/companies, you are comparing apples and oranges. To truly find out employee satisfaction, you need to test before the mention of a 4 day week is possible then compare it to after introduction in the same company.
On a side note, more "free time" is a myth. I've been busier than ever since I retired and wonder how I got all this done while I was working!
How do you explain 12 hour shifts in healthcare? Younger staff love them because of the extra day off. But as you get older it gets a lot harder, especially when we routinely work over our 12 hours.
For teachers it’s about pay. Here in WI most rural teachers have to have a 2nd job.
All the money goes to the top. Unions are mostly gone and the oligarchs are going to keep squeezing every cent they can out of the other 99%. This is part of the reason we have people revolting and blaming everyone but the 1% for their plight.
I’m the same way retired. I never have enough time to read like I’d like because I have so much going on.
Re: satisfaction, I think it’s all about employee engagement. If you are engaged in your work there isn’t much difference between 4 and 5 days. You are having fun at what you are doing and time becomes less relevant.
As companies push for a return to office, what if we combined the two concepts… 4 day work week, and a mixed return to office… split each company into their respective functional silos, and then have them work 2 days a week in office, 4 day work week. So finance, HR and It work Monday and Wednesday in office, Sales, Operations, etc work Tuesday Thursday in office, everyone gets Friday off… Employers get the benefits of culture from a partial return to office, employees get 4 day work week, and 2 days remote. And employers need exactly half as much office space, so massive savings on rent…
I'm all for the 4 day work week and not just because it's better for your health and your mind. It's better for society- a well balanced employee, entrepeuneur or boss runs rings around someone who is tired out and grumpy. I don't know who came up with the idea that we all needed to work 40 hours a week- when you do that there is hardly enough time in the week to include exercise, some mindfulness and time for friends and family. It's just about work and 'what you do.' All in about writing a new script for the next generations- they'll be happier.
BTW- I am a teacher and I think the students would be more productive also. We found that during the pandemic- having Wednesdays as an asynchronous day gave everyone the chance to review, recharge and come back ready to learn.
Crazy is an understatement. We need a law to allow truckers to use a bathroom? I’m thinking I would’ve been testing their ability to keep me out years ago!
Of course some people have to be “on the job” to interact, care for, operate on, teach others but the for the rest of us, I think the concept of being paid for “hours and days” needs to be thrown out the window. Of course, physically “being there” can be important both from a social and production standpoint. So, I vote for a common 2 day physical presence and a project assignment the rest of the time. The project would be completed within a reasonable amount of time. How many of us have gotten inspiration on weekends and off time? How many have done reference shopping and research on weekends? We need to take responsibility for our jobs and the success of our efforts. Hours have nothing to do with it.
Of course some people have to be “on the job” to interact, care for, operate on, teach others but the for the rest of us, I think the concept of being paid for “hours and days” needs to be thrown out the window. Of course, physically “being there” can be important both from a social and production standpoint. So, I vote for a common 2 day physical presence and a project assignment the rest of the time. The project would be completed within a reasonable amount of time. How many of us have gotten inspiration on weekends and off time? How many have done reference shopping and research on weekends? We need to take responsibility for our jobs and the success of our efforts. Hours have nothing to do with it.
I worked for the US EPA before I retired five years ago. They offered options for workweeks- standard 5 days/8 hour per day; four 10-hour days each week; or a two week period where you worked eight -9 hr days plus one -8hr day. We had to pick one option. We really liked the flexibility.
I’ve changed my hours throughout the years. From 5 clients/day to now 3. From one week vacation to now 10. But the key to keeping my clients is to spread it out.
So I now have 3 clients per day with either 2 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon or evening, or visa versa. I take a week’s vacation every 5th week.
I’m not an extravagant person and I don’t like to travel any more, so the week off is to study, read, sleep and take care of myself (and my dog). Being an introvert, makes things so easy. Luckily, I have a loyal clientele with more waiting in the wings.
Good morning. I am a teacher. Admin asks occassionally, but especially since we are quitting in droves, what would make us more "productive". A 4 day work week. It was proven that during the Pandemic we were considered babysitters. We could close a lot of things, but school, never. What would people do with their children? Who would babysit them? They would rather have us sit in an environment where we were coughed on, puked on, got sick ourselves, than have someone take the children and let us stay safe while the kids were kept safe. I was born a teacher. I am a teacher. I have been a teacher, for 28 years. I am looking for another job. Because I can not longer handle the one thing that I am and love. Because teaching isn't a job. It is who I am. But, the pandemic taught be I was really all along a babysitter. This is a very sad commentary.
I completely understand your position. That’s one of the symptoms of both parents working and still living paycheck to paycheck.
I'm saddened by the change in the dynamics of teaching, and how it is impacting you. As a child, my life was transformed and renewed by my 5th grade teacher. My youngest son is a grade school teacher, who longed to be one since he was in grade school. Now, he also is looking to get out after 8 years. I don't have a good solution for the problem(s). However, I wish you well on your search for your next career.
Not sure I understand what that means “to be a babysitter”? If you are teaching new and dynamic material, how do you end up being a babysitter? My Mom taught for 32 years. Never felt like a babysitter. Still got calls from students 15-320 years after she left teaching
When the focus of schools during a pandemic is to remain open so parents can work it sure seems like school is more of a daycare to those parents so both parents can work than the kids education.
Isn’t that the point Darrell? Teachers teach and the parents go to work to pay the real estate taxes that pay the teachers? Whether you rent or own, you are contributing to the taxes paid and the teachers getting paid.
Greg, you and I can never be friends. But, if you want to try paying more taxes so your workhorses of the schools get paid, that would be awesome.
Kristine, sorry that you can’t have a conversation without dismissing the other side. In the City of Chicago 52.52% of my taxes go to CPS. Yet test scores show the following: 25% elementary at or above proficiency, 24% in middle school and 21% in HS. So what is the right maiming to pay for ineptitude??
Sigh…you’re not listening.
I can understand your point, do you think smaller class rooms would help?
Our schools have 20-22 including special needs and various levels of spectrum with learning challenges. That is a BIG added challenge and burn out factor to “accommodate” and make lesson plans, plus disruption in the classroom of K-5.
But as many said, teachers pay and how towns districts spend money on the school varies all over the country. $30k-$80 is a big gap.
I do not have the one size fits all answer, but if we ask enough questions and get a REAL dialogue going perhaps we can get positive results. Clearly things needs to be changed and adjusted. Please do not quit, lead and be an example!
It would be a great article if Bill could follow up and dig deeper. Regards and thanks
Completely agree with Cobey--you won't be happy in another job!
It seems counterintuitive that you can get more done in 4 days than you can in 5 but the whole remote work environment has changed our culture and proven that people can be just as productive working "unsupervised" as they were sitting behind a computer at the office. I would bet that we're not the only ones who accumulate those those "extra" hours but that's one of the benefits to the company for offering up the freedom that comes with the less demanding work culture. It really goes back to the workforce and if you've hired good people, their work ethic will deliver results, regardless of the number of hours they're required to work. I would imagine pay adjustments would work itself out for new hires, if there was to be a change. I know our company is getting more creative with our recruiting options in order to attract more and better candidates.
It’s Parkinson’s Law where effort is a function over time. When you have a lot of time, you spend a lot of time. When you have a little time you magically grind it out in less time. The carrot to work harder and smarter is the day off 🙌
I did this with my company in Tennessee in the early 2000s — we called it summer hours and then it became the norm and was TOTALLY AWESOME!
You just have to set expectations with clients and remind them frequently.
Unfortunately, in California anything over 8 hours in a single day is OT — so the best we can offer now is a 32 hours per week
I'm curious if the 4 day work week study includes a job stress factor. Basically, if you are in a high stress job would cutting the hours back only serve to increase the stress? Of course, I don't mean to imply that longer hours reduces stress. Quite the opposite. My job is done with deadlines. The end of the month and end of year can get quite stressful. If my hours were lessened, I can imagine the stress level increasing geometrically. It's a nice thought though.
“Among people making over $100,000 it's still high: 47%.”
I can understand low income living paycheck to paycheck - it’s basic economics. People that earn $100K+, however, live that way by choice. I have no sympathy for those people. We stopped living that way by the time we were 30. We didn’t take fancy vacations and weren’t house poor. We saved money and were still able to contribute to a 401k plan.
It’s all about the choices you make with money.
Darrell, I agree. My words exactly when I read 47% for those making over 100k, a choice for sure! In fact, you can make choices to insure you won’t live paycheck to paycheck on incomes substantially lower than 100k. For low income individuals, it’s understandable. Most of them don’t have much choice, but others do.
Last summer, I changed my business's work schedule to 8am-5pm Mon-Thu and 9am-Noon on (our usual casual) Fridays as a trial. It's been so popular with our team we have adopted those hours permanently. As the owner, I had been trying to consciously stop working weekends and after hours for my own health and wellness. Even though technically I could take off as much time as I want, somehow with the office "closed" Friday afternoons I, too have given myself the gift of what feels like a 3-day weekend. Now my next goal for 2023 is to work a 3-day week. I can't wait.
Last summer I changed our business hours to 8am-5pm Mon-Thu and 9am-Noon on Fri. It was so popular with me and my team they are now permanent. I am the owner so technically I could take as much time off as I want, but somehow the structure of being closed Fri afternoon makes me feel like I have a 3 day weekend. I've been working the equivalent of 7 days a week for 12 years. (entrepreneur life - which I loved) but It wasn't healthy. My next goal for myself is to work a 3-day week. I feel like I have a new lease on life. It's wonderful.
No two industries nor two employers are the same. If you study 4 day weeks against 5 day weeks, among different fields/companies, you are comparing apples and oranges. To truly find out employee satisfaction, you need to test before the mention of a 4 day week is possible then compare it to after introduction in the same company.
On a side note, more "free time" is a myth. I've been busier than ever since I retired and wonder how I got all this done while I was working!
How do you explain 12 hour shifts in healthcare? Younger staff love them because of the extra day off. But as you get older it gets a lot harder, especially when we routinely work over our 12 hours.
For teachers it’s about pay. Here in WI most rural teachers have to have a 2nd job.
All the money goes to the top. Unions are mostly gone and the oligarchs are going to keep squeezing every cent they can out of the other 99%. This is part of the reason we have people revolting and blaming everyone but the 1% for their plight.
Ha, ha, Jeff. I say often that I’m so busy now that I’m retired I have no idea how I had time to work!!!
I’m the same way retired. I never have enough time to read like I’d like because I have so much going on.
Re: satisfaction, I think it’s all about employee engagement. If you are engaged in your work there isn’t much difference between 4 and 5 days. You are having fun at what you are doing and time becomes less relevant.
EXACTLY!!!!
As companies push for a return to office, what if we combined the two concepts… 4 day work week, and a mixed return to office… split each company into their respective functional silos, and then have them work 2 days a week in office, 4 day work week. So finance, HR and It work Monday and Wednesday in office, Sales, Operations, etc work Tuesday Thursday in office, everyone gets Friday off… Employers get the benefits of culture from a partial return to office, employees get 4 day work week, and 2 days remote. And employers need exactly half as much office space, so massive savings on rent…
I'm all for the 4 day work week and not just because it's better for your health and your mind. It's better for society- a well balanced employee, entrepeuneur or boss runs rings around someone who is tired out and grumpy. I don't know who came up with the idea that we all needed to work 40 hours a week- when you do that there is hardly enough time in the week to include exercise, some mindfulness and time for friends and family. It's just about work and 'what you do.' All in about writing a new script for the next generations- they'll be happier.
BTW- I am a teacher and I think the students would be more productive also. We found that during the pandemic- having Wednesdays as an asynchronous day gave everyone the chance to review, recharge and come back ready to learn.
Crazy is an understatement. We need a law to allow truckers to use a bathroom? I’m thinking I would’ve been testing their ability to keep me out years ago!
Of course some people have to be “on the job” to interact, care for, operate on, teach others but the for the rest of us, I think the concept of being paid for “hours and days” needs to be thrown out the window. Of course, physically “being there” can be important both from a social and production standpoint. So, I vote for a common 2 day physical presence and a project assignment the rest of the time. The project would be completed within a reasonable amount of time. How many of us have gotten inspiration on weekends and off time? How many have done reference shopping and research on weekends? We need to take responsibility for our jobs and the success of our efforts. Hours have nothing to do with it.
Of course some people have to be “on the job” to interact, care for, operate on, teach others but the for the rest of us, I think the concept of being paid for “hours and days” needs to be thrown out the window. Of course, physically “being there” can be important both from a social and production standpoint. So, I vote for a common 2 day physical presence and a project assignment the rest of the time. The project would be completed within a reasonable amount of time. How many of us have gotten inspiration on weekends and off time? How many have done reference shopping and research on weekends? We need to take responsibility for our jobs and the success of our efforts. Hours have nothing to do with it.
I worked for the US EPA before I retired five years ago. They offered options for workweeks- standard 5 days/8 hour per day; four 10-hour days each week; or a two week period where you worked eight -9 hr days plus one -8hr day. We had to pick one option. We really liked the flexibility.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect
12 hours/shift in the steel industry means 4 sifts/week = 48 hours or 4 visits to the plant
I’ve changed my hours throughout the years. From 5 clients/day to now 3. From one week vacation to now 10. But the key to keeping my clients is to spread it out.
So I now have 3 clients per day with either 2 in the morning and 1 in the afternoon or evening, or visa versa. I take a week’s vacation every 5th week.
I’m not an extravagant person and I don’t like to travel any more, so the week off is to study, read, sleep and take care of myself (and my dog). Being an introvert, makes things so easy. Luckily, I have a loyal clientele with more waiting in the wings.