Once again, I believe this subject has been covered before. I'm an early riser, have been since my kids were born. I'd get up so I could have my coffee, enjoy reading the actual paper version of the newspaper before the day's activities began... my x-MIL & sister-in-law stayed up all night, both had severe mental illness. My X also preferred late nights... When I owned a business, having my office at home, waking up around 4, I'd get a lot done...
When I moved to where I am now I would be waking up for the day & the intelligent woman next door would be going to bed, around 4 am. W/in a few yrs she developed Alzheimer's & has since died.
6 hrs is a good night's sleep. No naps - they mess up my night's sleep. Usually have some wine in the late afternoon, but too much or too late messes up my sleep, as does eating too much.
Thanks for the link for saying "no". I rarely have a problem doing that, but the suggestions are clever and amusing. Secondly, I have to ask: did you choose the cheesecake retro clock in the article? I wish you had chosen something else.
As a natural born swing shifter, I can attest that some folx don't fare well in the morning.
I was 8 when I asked my wise mother if we could sleep all day and stay up all night. She answered her stubborn child carefully, "you could, but you would have no one with whom to play."
This is the crux of the issue. It's a lark world.
These studies, and the ones looking at people forced to work outside their circadian rhythms, all focus on the larks. No one cares about the owls. Look at these Uni students. Uni is entirely a Lark world. No decent classes are offered at 10pm. Labs and studios aren't open late. Even the libraries usually close at night. To attain my degree, I had to attend lectures at obscene hours presumably due to lecture and lab availability. I was always in a brain fog. I can assure you my O Chem grade would have been higher if that class had begun later.
Nursing offers all shifts, and call, and I have worked them all. My absolute fav is swing. I'd go to bed at two, when the world was quiet and my thoughts had settled. I could go our for a late drink or movie if I chose. I'd get up late, depending on my days' errands- at this time there was no online banking and ATMs were just beginning. Dry Cleaners don't stay open late, and neither do drug stores. I loved it when the grocery stores kept the lights on as their night shift restocked. I could shop in peaceful quiet without many carts, toddler tantrums, and long lines.
But school schedules demanded different things, and you should look at the studies about how stupid those are. El children are up anyway, and HS kids need more sleep, but the districts are stuck in 1950. BTW, daycare is almost impossible for single moms on swing and nights if you don't have family. Let that sink in, larks.
Thankfully, by the time I had to work at 0700, I was experienced enough to make it until 1100 when my brain finally kicked in. Is that really what you want from your nurse?
But when I had a chance to do twelves, I took 1100-2330 every time.
I have never suffered from insomnia, as so many whiny larks seem to do. All I need for sleep is permission, let to my own designs. I can even nap when I'm tired. I figure out what fresh Hell the lark world is demanding of me the next day, and subtract 8 hours. That's when I try to go to bed.
But sleep is always slower coming if I try to retire prior to 2230.
So until they do some real research that respects owls, don't lecture what you don't understand.
Interesting & informative. I believe you might be a relatively rare “bird”, & that’s not said negatively at all, just factually.
I knew 2 nurses who worked night shift because it was best for their family schedule with young kids.
Factory workers I know who have to switch back & forth between shifts have a very difficult time
For awhile my brother was a restaurant manager, 24 hr, & would too frequently have to make a long drive in to cover shifts when people wouldn’t come in - that was extremely hard on him
As Thomas B wrote quality of sleep is quite possibly more important than when
Having to cycle between days and nights is awful. Straight out of college I worked every other weekend nights which was enough to send me loopy. There are many studies to support this. Having a constant schedule is huge no matter the industry.
And it sounds as though your nurse friend were not owls but larks forced to be owls by circumstance as I discussed above. Lots of studies there too.
But I’m not as rare as it may seem. Circadian rhythms are real. They have been studied as well and not every one is a larrk. I’ve worked with many nurses who preferred evenings or nights. But not everyone can afford to do whatever they want. Even when what you want is unusual and necessary. It’s the lark world crashing in.
One thing I didn't really see addressed in the study you quoted was the amount of sleep that the "night owls" got each night. I don't see the issue being the time one goes to bed, it is more related to the amount of sleep one gets. There are numerous studies that suggest that the amount of sleep is the important factor. There area also a number of studies that have looked at morning sunlight vs afternoon sunlight as having an impact on ones mental health. I think the reality is that the significant factor is the amount and quality of sleep that the person gets, not the timing of the sleep.
I've been a night owl most of my life and have never had any mental health problems that were related to sleep issues. As was mentioned, people have different rhythms and what works for one may not work for someone else. Also as Seattle Mom pointed out, the world is predicated on "day" people instead of the night owls. She pointed out a number of factors that work against being a night owl. Somewhat similar to the world being oriented toward right handed people instead of left handed people.
One thing I do agree with however, is that those who get less than six hours a night, at a minimum, do tend to have more mental health issues, but that is more related to the amount and quality of the sleep, not the timing of the sleep. This has been shown by numerous studies over time that have all supported that conclusion.
Biology is science and can be proven. Your daily body clock (all your bodily processes, not just sleep) is driven by your circadian rhythm. According to the Cleveland Clinic:
Circadian rhythm disorders
Sometimes, changes to your circadian rhythm can be a sign of a more serious health condition like a circadian rhythm disorder. These types of disorders include:
Delayed sleep phase syndrome: This type of disorder affects people known as “night owls.” It means you go to bed and wake up two or more hours later than most people.
Advanced sleep phase disorder: Advanced sleep phase disorder is the opposite of delayed sleep phase syndrome. You fall asleep three or more hours before most people and then wake up very early. It’s largely seen in elderly patients with cognitive impairment/dementia.
Jet lag: Jet lag is a condition that occurs when you travel over three or more time zones by airplane. You may experience insomnia, extreme tiredness (fatigue) and other symptoms.
Shift work sleep disorder (SWSD): SWSD occurs when you work a job that has untraditional or unpredictable hours. It can cause insomnia, trouble staying asleep and inappropriate sleepiness.
Irregular sleep-wake disorder: In this condition, your body can’t set a regular wake and sleep schedule.
Short-term circadian rhythm disruptions may result in:
A delay in healing wounds.
Changes to your hormones.
Digestion issues.
Fluctuations in your body temperature.
Lack of energy.
Memory loss.
Circadian rhythm disruptions can lead to long-term health conditions in many different body systems, including your:
Once again, I believe this subject has been covered before. I'm an early riser, have been since my kids were born. I'd get up so I could have my coffee, enjoy reading the actual paper version of the newspaper before the day's activities began... my x-MIL & sister-in-law stayed up all night, both had severe mental illness. My X also preferred late nights... When I owned a business, having my office at home, waking up around 4, I'd get a lot done...
When I moved to where I am now I would be waking up for the day & the intelligent woman next door would be going to bed, around 4 am. W/in a few yrs she developed Alzheimer's & has since died.
6 hrs is a good night's sleep. No naps - they mess up my night's sleep. Usually have some wine in the late afternoon, but too much or too late messes up my sleep, as does eating too much.
that last link is PERFECT to send to a friend who has the hardest time saying 'no'!!!! Thank you!
Thanks for the link for saying "no". I rarely have a problem doing that, but the suggestions are clever and amusing. Secondly, I have to ask: did you choose the cheesecake retro clock in the article? I wish you had chosen something else.
Haha - people post late cause they stay up late & sleep late 😏
Wow. Bias much?
As a natural born swing shifter, I can attest that some folx don't fare well in the morning.
I was 8 when I asked my wise mother if we could sleep all day and stay up all night. She answered her stubborn child carefully, "you could, but you would have no one with whom to play."
This is the crux of the issue. It's a lark world.
These studies, and the ones looking at people forced to work outside their circadian rhythms, all focus on the larks. No one cares about the owls. Look at these Uni students. Uni is entirely a Lark world. No decent classes are offered at 10pm. Labs and studios aren't open late. Even the libraries usually close at night. To attain my degree, I had to attend lectures at obscene hours presumably due to lecture and lab availability. I was always in a brain fog. I can assure you my O Chem grade would have been higher if that class had begun later.
Nursing offers all shifts, and call, and I have worked them all. My absolute fav is swing. I'd go to bed at two, when the world was quiet and my thoughts had settled. I could go our for a late drink or movie if I chose. I'd get up late, depending on my days' errands- at this time there was no online banking and ATMs were just beginning. Dry Cleaners don't stay open late, and neither do drug stores. I loved it when the grocery stores kept the lights on as their night shift restocked. I could shop in peaceful quiet without many carts, toddler tantrums, and long lines.
But school schedules demanded different things, and you should look at the studies about how stupid those are. El children are up anyway, and HS kids need more sleep, but the districts are stuck in 1950. BTW, daycare is almost impossible for single moms on swing and nights if you don't have family. Let that sink in, larks.
Thankfully, by the time I had to work at 0700, I was experienced enough to make it until 1100 when my brain finally kicked in. Is that really what you want from your nurse?
But when I had a chance to do twelves, I took 1100-2330 every time.
I have never suffered from insomnia, as so many whiny larks seem to do. All I need for sleep is permission, let to my own designs. I can even nap when I'm tired. I figure out what fresh Hell the lark world is demanding of me the next day, and subtract 8 hours. That's when I try to go to bed.
But sleep is always slower coming if I try to retire prior to 2230.
So until they do some real research that respects owls, don't lecture what you don't understand.
Interesting & informative. I believe you might be a relatively rare “bird”, & that’s not said negatively at all, just factually.
I knew 2 nurses who worked night shift because it was best for their family schedule with young kids.
Factory workers I know who have to switch back & forth between shifts have a very difficult time
For awhile my brother was a restaurant manager, 24 hr, & would too frequently have to make a long drive in to cover shifts when people wouldn’t come in - that was extremely hard on him
As Thomas B wrote quality of sleep is quite possibly more important than when
Having to cycle between days and nights is awful. Straight out of college I worked every other weekend nights which was enough to send me loopy. There are many studies to support this. Having a constant schedule is huge no matter the industry.
And it sounds as though your nurse friend were not owls but larks forced to be owls by circumstance as I discussed above. Lots of studies there too.
But I’m not as rare as it may seem. Circadian rhythms are real. They have been studied as well and not every one is a larrk. I’ve worked with many nurses who preferred evenings or nights. But not everyone can afford to do whatever they want. Even when what you want is unusual and necessary. It’s the lark world crashing in.
One thing I didn't really see addressed in the study you quoted was the amount of sleep that the "night owls" got each night. I don't see the issue being the time one goes to bed, it is more related to the amount of sleep one gets. There are numerous studies that suggest that the amount of sleep is the important factor. There area also a number of studies that have looked at morning sunlight vs afternoon sunlight as having an impact on ones mental health. I think the reality is that the significant factor is the amount and quality of sleep that the person gets, not the timing of the sleep.
I've been a night owl most of my life and have never had any mental health problems that were related to sleep issues. As was mentioned, people have different rhythms and what works for one may not work for someone else. Also as Seattle Mom pointed out, the world is predicated on "day" people instead of the night owls. She pointed out a number of factors that work against being a night owl. Somewhat similar to the world being oriented toward right handed people instead of left handed people.
One thing I do agree with however, is that those who get less than six hours a night, at a minimum, do tend to have more mental health issues, but that is more related to the amount and quality of the sleep, not the timing of the sleep. This has been shown by numerous studies over time that have all supported that conclusion.
Biology is science and can be proven. Your daily body clock (all your bodily processes, not just sleep) is driven by your circadian rhythm. According to the Cleveland Clinic:
Circadian rhythm disorders
Sometimes, changes to your circadian rhythm can be a sign of a more serious health condition like a circadian rhythm disorder. These types of disorders include:
Delayed sleep phase syndrome: This type of disorder affects people known as “night owls.” It means you go to bed and wake up two or more hours later than most people.
Advanced sleep phase disorder: Advanced sleep phase disorder is the opposite of delayed sleep phase syndrome. You fall asleep three or more hours before most people and then wake up very early. It’s largely seen in elderly patients with cognitive impairment/dementia.
Jet lag: Jet lag is a condition that occurs when you travel over three or more time zones by airplane. You may experience insomnia, extreme tiredness (fatigue) and other symptoms.
Shift work sleep disorder (SWSD): SWSD occurs when you work a job that has untraditional or unpredictable hours. It can cause insomnia, trouble staying asleep and inappropriate sleepiness.
Irregular sleep-wake disorder: In this condition, your body can’t set a regular wake and sleep schedule.
Short-term circadian rhythm disruptions may result in:
A delay in healing wounds.
Changes to your hormones.
Digestion issues.
Fluctuations in your body temperature.
Lack of energy.
Memory loss.
Circadian rhythm disruptions can lead to long-term health conditions in many different body systems, including your:
Cardiovascular system.
Metabolism.
Gastrointestinal system.
Endocrine system.
Nervous system.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/circadian-rhythm