I think net worth is meaningless until you get to about 60 or so. Then it is about the debt/assets net ration. Until a “retirement” age line in the sand it is really meaningless.
We carried debt in the form of an equity line on our home so we could deduct the interest on taxes until I retired, as well as auto leases. Then, we sold our home and downsized to a home with no mortgage and we own our cars. At this point it is easy to calculate net worth because it is all addition and no subtraction!
Root cause analysis is an oft overlooked tool that is quite useful here. I agree with you that social media, as well as poor basic math skills, are at the bottom of the trend.
Social media has dramatically distorted our perceptions of the world and was further amplified during covid when we became less physically social. You can see the trend line of its influence in the perceptions of net worth by age just as you can tie it to many other everyday things.
That was my thought as well. I’m sure a gen Zer would define it far differently than I would(a Boomer)who finally had a successful marriage, two boys, a home; each one nicer than our starter condo, the ability to travel and see a not insignificant part of greater North America and a few countries south and east of the US. My childhood was immediately post World War 2, single working mom growing up in an apartment in a small mid Atlantic state and with just enough college under my belt to be dangerous. Definitely not middle class at all; perhaps middle or upper lower with financial help from grandparents. My sons’ upbringing was different from mine in that they started out in a bit of a dysfunctional household which later led to a rather bitter divorce and issues with visitations and all the rancor that can come from such an atmosphere. I know they would define success differently than I would have at their age. I believe success is fluid and different for males and females. So Bill, how do you define success today as opposed to when you were just starting out?
that's some kind of power Hamas have - The sides have carried out five swaps since the ceasefire went into effect last month, freeing 21 hostages and more than 730 Palestinian prisoners. The next exchange, scheduled for next Saturday, calls for three more Israeli hostages to be freed in exchange for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners.
hostages vs prisoners, some of whom are violent prisoners.
and now they're calling Saturday's deal off... some, according to BBC, are speculating after the outcry of how awful the emaciating released hostages looked, Hamas are 'reluctant' to show how the remaining hostages look. Of course, many are quite likely dead.
I fear that Hamas is stringing out the release to hide the fact that many are no longer alive. When that breaks, all hell will likely break out. Warmongers and terrorists will be the only ones celebrating.
It's sad to see so many now trying to paint Trumps plan as genocide and advocate for a continuation of decades of conflict and death. War is big business and those that profit have no empathy for those they maim and kill.
I think it's a shame that "to be considered successful" equates to how much money you make. How much better the world would be if people were considered successful by how good a person they are.
As a father of four who works two full-time jobs and barely makes over $100,000, I live paycheck to paycheck. The American Dream is dead. I don't own a home and constantly have to overextend myself just to be able to provide my kids with a better life than I had. $150,000 has been my waterline goal for about 10 years now and there is no way to easily achieve that goal. Maybe in 10 more years I'll hit that watermark, but I'm sure by then the cost of living will move that goal post to $200,000.
They say that money can't buy happiness. (But you can rent it.) : )
The question you ask, "How much money do you need" is a very broad one. Need vs want. Plus, it leaves out all of the elements of life that don't require money, but are certainly influenced by your proximity to it - education, health care, community, etc.
Asking this group, which I would bet is mostly comprised of people at least in the top 20%, certainly will skew your results.
I'm curious as to how people around the world would answer that question.
Anyway, it is interesting that Gen-Z has a unique perspective on how much is needed.
Millenial here. I have a very little idea how "net worth" affects my quality of life as I use eveything outside of my nest egg of 30k for retirement savings. So much of this view really depends on how you were raised. People who grew up in poverty might likely be more prone to consider being able to get by month to month just fine "successful".
Money doesn’t buy happiness but it does buy food and housing security for your family - and that is an important aspect of “success.” The scientific measurement of biological success is reproduction - as a species we are VERY successful. But the people I would consider “successful” are those who achieve a level of peace within themselves which comes from many factors, of which money is only a small one.
As I'm from the "before boomers" era, it was felt that whatever was needed to have a comfortable life and retirement life. I counsel my children the same today except "consider inflation". (by the way my wife and I are not rich but we're comfortable)
No offence to Gen Z, but I came out of school in the early 1980's. Interest rates were in the high teens and we had double digit inflation. My first job was working in a law office were 90% of what I did was foreclosure documentation. Most depressing job I ever had. We were able to buy a home due to my hubby's inheritance; otherwise we would be serial renters.
I would love to call and leave a message but my phone only works in Canada . . . . Good idea, though. I hope you get more uptake.
We have to adjust numbers by location to make any sense of perceptions. These numbers differ vastly across the united states. $150,000 a year is a great sum in Northern Illinois and I suspect even more so in Mississippi. The coasts and large cities are not reflective of the state of most of our country. National media has been consolidated to these same high cost of living areas. Much of marketing is the same.
That gives the whole, a wholly different perspective than what is their local reality.
That said, all suffer from the %30+ inflation over the short run from the pandemic, but from their own stage in life and career.
Our younger generations are burdened more by the systems that have evolved. For the most part, boomers and Xers have not had to deal with the College debt. That debt burden for many is now what only Doctors dealt with when I was young. (Gen-X)
The same is true for medical costs. Now covered by Medicare for many Boomers, it more greatly burdens the younger generations. Tough for Gen-X and Millennials starting to feel their age, but stressful for Z unable to imagine the cost in the future.
Then we have housing. Oh my! Boomers and many X, are blessed with a low rate or paid off house which is now worth more than they every imagined. Sadly, most can't leverage that equity to buy anything better than what they have unless moving into a lower cost of living area.
Then we have the stock market and investments. Beneficiaries here descend from the Boomers on down, with those with the greatest time in market (boomers) benefiting the most. Gen Z hardly has start in this space and can only expect a correction.
Then we have insurance. Oh My!
Then we have subscription based services. Who bought into Hulu, Then Hulu+, Then Hulu+No Commercials only to end up with commercial TV that the Boomers have always watched for free?
Repeat that process for any subscription over the past several years.
The non-retired generations are having hard time reconciling the expense of maintaining their current quality of life in the future. Many retirees didn't have a house and/or market savings to adjust to the inflation of the past several years.
Good luck kids. May we all find a better day. May those with fewer days maintain the dignity and quality of their past days.
For anyone who missed it, Fed Chair Powel testified before congress today. Really just reporting the year, but interesting in light of our discussion on economic perspectives.
Re: being terrible at math as a culture… see the below link for the best visualization of the difference between 1 million vs. 1 billion+ that I’ve seen.
I definitely think our inability to appreciate these differences in wealth (and the perceived normalization of having obscene amounts of wealth) contributes to our perceptions of how much we think individuals should need/want/have.
This visualization made me fundamentally believe billionaires are a policy failure.
And note it’s based on data from 2021 so the size of billionaire wealth has greatly increased since then, which is nuts if you think about it to scale like this.
It’s hard to even have the patience to scroll through the amount of bezos’ wealth here.
Networks at what age?
Spellchecker got me. Networth
Excellent point.
I think net worth is meaningless until you get to about 60 or so. Then it is about the debt/assets net ration. Until a “retirement” age line in the sand it is really meaningless.
We carried debt in the form of an equity line on our home so we could deduct the interest on taxes until I retired, as well as auto leases. Then, we sold our home and downsized to a home with no mortgage and we own our cars. At this point it is easy to calculate net worth because it is all addition and no subtraction!
Root cause analysis is an oft overlooked tool that is quite useful here. I agree with you that social media, as well as poor basic math skills, are at the bottom of the trend.
Social media has dramatically distorted our perceptions of the world and was further amplified during covid when we became less physically social. You can see the trend line of its influence in the perceptions of net worth by age just as you can tie it to many other everyday things.
Define successful
That was my thought as well. I’m sure a gen Zer would define it far differently than I would(a Boomer)who finally had a successful marriage, two boys, a home; each one nicer than our starter condo, the ability to travel and see a not insignificant part of greater North America and a few countries south and east of the US. My childhood was immediately post World War 2, single working mom growing up in an apartment in a small mid Atlantic state and with just enough college under my belt to be dangerous. Definitely not middle class at all; perhaps middle or upper lower with financial help from grandparents. My sons’ upbringing was different from mine in that they started out in a bit of a dysfunctional household which later led to a rather bitter divorce and issues with visitations and all the rancor that can come from such an atmosphere. I know they would define success differently than I would have at their age. I believe success is fluid and different for males and females. So Bill, how do you define success today as opposed to when you were just starting out?
I remember saying that if could net five hundred a week I'd be set. What a change some time, inflation, and taxes can make.
that's some kind of power Hamas have - The sides have carried out five swaps since the ceasefire went into effect last month, freeing 21 hostages and more than 730 Palestinian prisoners. The next exchange, scheduled for next Saturday, calls for three more Israeli hostages to be freed in exchange for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners.
hostages vs prisoners, some of whom are violent prisoners.
and now they're calling Saturday's deal off... some, according to BBC, are speculating after the outcry of how awful the emaciating released hostages looked, Hamas are 'reluctant' to show how the remaining hostages look. Of course, many are quite likely dead.
I fear that Hamas is stringing out the release to hide the fact that many are no longer alive. When that breaks, all hell will likely break out. Warmongers and terrorists will be the only ones celebrating.
I clicked 'liked' altho it should just be 'agree, unfortunately, sadly'
It's sad to see so many now trying to paint Trumps plan as genocide and advocate for a continuation of decades of conflict and death. War is big business and those that profit have no empathy for those they maim and kill.
I share dj's sentiment. I clicked like, but don't like it. Now back to my Playing for Change playlist on Youtube.
I think it's a shame that "to be considered successful" equates to how much money you make. How much better the world would be if people were considered successful by how good a person they are.
As a father of four who works two full-time jobs and barely makes over $100,000, I live paycheck to paycheck. The American Dream is dead. I don't own a home and constantly have to overextend myself just to be able to provide my kids with a better life than I had. $150,000 has been my waterline goal for about 10 years now and there is no way to easily achieve that goal. Maybe in 10 more years I'll hit that watermark, but I'm sure by then the cost of living will move that goal post to $200,000.
They say that money can't buy happiness. (But you can rent it.) : )
The question you ask, "How much money do you need" is a very broad one. Need vs want. Plus, it leaves out all of the elements of life that don't require money, but are certainly influenced by your proximity to it - education, health care, community, etc.
Asking this group, which I would bet is mostly comprised of people at least in the top 20%, certainly will skew your results.
I'm curious as to how people around the world would answer that question.
Anyway, it is interesting that Gen-Z has a unique perspective on how much is needed.
Thanks for the interesting article.
Millenial here. I have a very little idea how "net worth" affects my quality of life as I use eveything outside of my nest egg of 30k for retirement savings. So much of this view really depends on how you were raised. People who grew up in poverty might likely be more prone to consider being able to get by month to month just fine "successful".
Money doesn’t buy happiness but it does buy food and housing security for your family - and that is an important aspect of “success.” The scientific measurement of biological success is reproduction - as a species we are VERY successful. But the people I would consider “successful” are those who achieve a level of peace within themselves which comes from many factors, of which money is only a small one.
As I'm from the "before boomers" era, it was felt that whatever was needed to have a comfortable life and retirement life. I counsel my children the same today except "consider inflation". (by the way my wife and I are not rich but we're comfortable)
No offence to Gen Z, but I came out of school in the early 1980's. Interest rates were in the high teens and we had double digit inflation. My first job was working in a law office were 90% of what I did was foreclosure documentation. Most depressing job I ever had. We were able to buy a home due to my hubby's inheritance; otherwise we would be serial renters.
I would love to call and leave a message but my phone only works in Canada . . . . Good idea, though. I hope you get more uptake.
We have to adjust numbers by location to make any sense of perceptions. These numbers differ vastly across the united states. $150,000 a year is a great sum in Northern Illinois and I suspect even more so in Mississippi. The coasts and large cities are not reflective of the state of most of our country. National media has been consolidated to these same high cost of living areas. Much of marketing is the same.
That gives the whole, a wholly different perspective than what is their local reality.
That said, all suffer from the %30+ inflation over the short run from the pandemic, but from their own stage in life and career.
Our younger generations are burdened more by the systems that have evolved. For the most part, boomers and Xers have not had to deal with the College debt. That debt burden for many is now what only Doctors dealt with when I was young. (Gen-X)
The same is true for medical costs. Now covered by Medicare for many Boomers, it more greatly burdens the younger generations. Tough for Gen-X and Millennials starting to feel their age, but stressful for Z unable to imagine the cost in the future.
Then we have housing. Oh my! Boomers and many X, are blessed with a low rate or paid off house which is now worth more than they every imagined. Sadly, most can't leverage that equity to buy anything better than what they have unless moving into a lower cost of living area.
Then we have the stock market and investments. Beneficiaries here descend from the Boomers on down, with those with the greatest time in market (boomers) benefiting the most. Gen Z hardly has start in this space and can only expect a correction.
Then we have insurance. Oh My!
Then we have subscription based services. Who bought into Hulu, Then Hulu+, Then Hulu+No Commercials only to end up with commercial TV that the Boomers have always watched for free?
Repeat that process for any subscription over the past several years.
The non-retired generations are having hard time reconciling the expense of maintaining their current quality of life in the future. Many retirees didn't have a house and/or market savings to adjust to the inflation of the past several years.
Good luck kids. May we all find a better day. May those with fewer days maintain the dignity and quality of their past days.
For anyone who missed it, Fed Chair Powel testified before congress today. Really just reporting the year, but interesting in light of our discussion on economic perspectives.
https://youtu.be/kM8yBTV7BgA?t=100
Re: being terrible at math as a culture… see the below link for the best visualization of the difference between 1 million vs. 1 billion+ that I’ve seen.
I definitely think our inability to appreciate these differences in wealth (and the perceived normalization of having obscene amounts of wealth) contributes to our perceptions of how much we think individuals should need/want/have.
This visualization made me fundamentally believe billionaires are a policy failure.
https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaYmq13LeOkN0E9PF5BI2hN8pz3Qo82srQquqkHOyguB2ijBVC3tC2moWQM_aem_rqU81i9w4wURvCexdaxINA
And note it’s based on data from 2021 so the size of billionaire wealth has greatly increased since then, which is nuts if you think about it to scale like this.
It’s hard to even have the patience to scroll through the amount of bezos’ wealth here.
Are those annual numbers pre or after tax?