Loved the point that those who were willing to cheat might also be prone to self-deceiving behaviors, too. Totally valid! I would guess they responded to the survey to help themselves justify the behavior.
People who cheat at anything usually try to justify their actions actions to ease their conscience providing the have an ounce of morals. They fail to see what their actions might lead to. Actions result in reactions and consequences.
I’ve always tilted my head like a confused dog at men or women who cheat. I’m like, “really?”
But for men, I think it’s also a narcissism thing. Ego. This might also explain the willingness to participate in a survey.
I really don’t claim to know their reasons, but I’m thinking women have very different reasons than men. If I drive up to a stoplight and a gaudy $150k sports car pulls up next to my little Prius and revs its engine, I’m fairly confident it’s not a female behind the wheel. That same general thought leads me to believe more men than women would greet an Ashley Madison survey with, “Yeah, sure…why not?”
If I heard that a female friend of mine was cheating, my first thought would never be that she would be comfortable with or interested in “bragging rights”.
I think you provided an excellent example of the thinking process that justifies relationships - virtual or in real life, with other than primary partner. It certainly makes it easier to continue those behaviors - until someone gets caught. I agree that responding to a survey is continuing to justify & normalize their actions. (See I’m not abnormal) of course the Ashley Madison site is interesting enough for understanding their target market.
Males do not grow up until they are 25-30. We may think we are civilized and unlike “animals” but that is simply not true. Men (and women) are driven by biology. Women are driven by biology to find a mate that can provide and then have babies. Men are driven by biology to impregnate women. Being civilized just provides some boundaries, and at some point men age to the point where they are better able to manage the biology.
I suspect the men using sites like Ashley Madison are older and fit the post-30 demographic. In that case, these men are more likely to fit the “cheating” definition.
There is an interesting study my wife shared with me done among female strippers. In essence, dancers made more in tips if they were not on birth control and thus able to ovulate, and even more when they were ovulating. Once again, biology in action.
People cheat because they are not emotionally mature enough for self examination and real accountability. It’s not the easiest route to be honest with yourself, see your real flaws/issues and take the time and energy to make changes. Cheating is a quick fix, as well as, a satisfying solution to a nagging, self centered, “wherever I go, there I am” dilemma.
Left out of this study is an awareness of the emotional damage this does to one’s spouse and children, when many affairs eventually come to light. I’ve seen it destroy marriages and families. Just saying these words does not convey the devastation that this really entails.
Some men are cheat because they’re desperately unhappy in their relationships, and do end up divorcing and staying with their new “squeeze”.
However, I seem to remember a study finding that these second marriages, forged from cheating beginnings, are less likely to last than traditional marriages. Once a cheater, a boundary is broken?
I once dated a separated, older man who’d been having affairs since early in his marriage. He was in therapy to figure what was going on with him. When he realized what he’d actually been doing all those years, he told me he was very upset - that he’d never really taken care of her emotionally. Choked up, clearly it weighed on him and he regretted it. But the therapy also resulted in his realization that he basically should never have married. That monogamy was not in his nature for whatever reason. (I ultimately parted with him due to this, though I liked him ver much). He did me the honor and cared for me enough to be honest with me. We were looking for different things.
Finally, in my experience I see men as in two broad categories. Those who are wanting a cliose, ongoing relationship mostly with kids, and those who want maybe part of that, but the parts, too. So many variables including the quality of the marriage and the connection. My parents were married fir 70 yrs. Many, many ups and downs, but no question of their staying together. There was such a deep love between them. It just transcended everything. But I think this is not very easy to find. But if you have it, it’s golden.
I find Bill's comment about his being interested in what a study of women who cheat would show very appropriate. Men who cheat have to be cheating with someone, and I'm guessing all the women the men are cheating with aren't single. An old professor of mine said that if about 50% of men cheat, what is the percentage of women that cheat? He was guessing about 50% also.
I tend to agree with whoever in the posting suggested it was a lack of committment, that and an unwillingness to stick to the vows they made (if the vows included fidelity to only one person) and that applies to both men and women. I don't buy biology as an excuse, that's simply what it is, an excuse to "justify" the behavior.
One other aspect that may play into it is that it is accepted in many ways and it is modeled by the "famous" people, i.e. movie stars and other who tend to do it on a fairly regular basis. Since it happens so frequently in the subset of the population, others may tend to see it as okay. Can't say I agree with it as I see it as immature and irresponsible, and a poor example to set for one's children if there are children involved.
Overall, I see it as dishonesty with themselves and their spouses. An willingness to make the relationship work. Any relationship takes effort and work to make it successful, however one wants to define it, and many, unfortunately, aren't willing to put in the time and effort to make it work. Regrettably, they also fail to take into consideration the impact their behavior has on the spouse, the children and others who are often affected by their cheating.
Why are men the scapegoats here? They are just wired as all men are wired - to procreate., some stronger than others. Women need to acknowledge that they are hardwired too, and are an equal partner in this debate, and acknowledge that fact. Women have demonstrated their role in seduction, either overt or covert, and therefore share in the “cheating”scheme. An honest acknowledgement of these facts may result in a discussion of how mens perceived “cheating” can be thoughtfully perceived by women with considered thinking on both sides.
First of all, Welcome back, Bill! I trust you and your family had a wonderful and restful vacation :-)
As for cheating … mmm … it’s the concept of cheating that’s troubling.
Whether it be cheating on a spouse or cheating on homework- if accountability doesn’t happen early, then I can see the dissembling of thoughts that allow it to happen again with less remorse.
As I was once a nursing instructor, this is a very serious issue. With serious consequences. Just saying …
About ‘the Donald’ story …. There is another famous Donald who may be responsible for the Donald blip, Donald Glover, aka Childish Gambino. To my twenty-something children (they are all in their 20s - I don’t have 20 or so children!) this Donald is admired much more than the other one.
About ‘the Donald’ story …. There is another famous Donald who may be responsible for the Donald blip, Donald Glover, aka Childish Gambino. To my twenty-something children (they are all in their 20s - I don’t have 20 or so children!) this Donald is admired much more than the other one.
Wow, this thread really put a serious knot in some knickers. How's that phrase go? Those who sing the loudest, sin the most. Choirboy/playboy. Choirgirl/playgirl. Hmmmmm. Interesting. Maybe that theory has validity as well.
I'm one of them. I did it on my first wife (RIP). I told her the next day. Selfish, I know, but I wanted out and I figured that was the way to accomplish it. Lots of guilt feelings on my part and lots of hateful sadness on her part until she died 30 years later.
Next, in "7 other things,"
Hurrah for Ukraine! The west's help helped, I'm sure. But it was Ukrainian soldiers who get almost all of my credit -- and Volodymyr Zelensky's courage!
Sad about Queen Elizabeth II's fading public symbols. Hopefully soon a huge commemorative stamp!
Good on Princeton University. A great surprise. How are they planning on making up the deficit? Or will they make it extremely difficult for poorer student to get in?
On Donalds, is there a problem in number 7? 592 up from 610? What's wrong with the arithmetic? Are the numbers inverted? What about the previous years since tRump was elected? Also decreases? (forgive me, I dislike him so much, I can't write his name correctly)
I am still curious about your big question: why did they respond to this survey? I suspect for the same reasons they use Ashley Madison. It's fun to pursue a second life or a more fun self hidden behind a screen of an app or a survey.
Loved the point that those who were willing to cheat might also be prone to self-deceiving behaviors, too. Totally valid! I would guess they responded to the survey to help themselves justify the behavior.
People who cheat at anything usually try to justify their actions actions to ease their conscience providing the have an ounce of morals. They fail to see what their actions might lead to. Actions result in reactions and consequences.
I’ve always tilted my head like a confused dog at men or women who cheat. I’m like, “really?”
But for men, I think it’s also a narcissism thing. Ego. This might also explain the willingness to participate in a survey.
I really don’t claim to know their reasons, but I’m thinking women have very different reasons than men. If I drive up to a stoplight and a gaudy $150k sports car pulls up next to my little Prius and revs its engine, I’m fairly confident it’s not a female behind the wheel. That same general thought leads me to believe more men than women would greet an Ashley Madison survey with, “Yeah, sure…why not?”
If I heard that a female friend of mine was cheating, my first thought would never be that she would be comfortable with or interested in “bragging rights”.
I think you provided an excellent example of the thinking process that justifies relationships - virtual or in real life, with other than primary partner. It certainly makes it easier to continue those behaviors - until someone gets caught. I agree that responding to a survey is continuing to justify & normalize their actions. (See I’m not abnormal) of course the Ashley Madison site is interesting enough for understanding their target market.
Males do not grow up until they are 25-30. We may think we are civilized and unlike “animals” but that is simply not true. Men (and women) are driven by biology. Women are driven by biology to find a mate that can provide and then have babies. Men are driven by biology to impregnate women. Being civilized just provides some boundaries, and at some point men age to the point where they are better able to manage the biology.
I suspect the men using sites like Ashley Madison are older and fit the post-30 demographic. In that case, these men are more likely to fit the “cheating” definition.
There is an interesting study my wife shared with me done among female strippers. In essence, dancers made more in tips if they were not on birth control and thus able to ovulate, and even more when they were ovulating. Once again, biology in action.
People cheat because they are not emotionally mature enough for self examination and real accountability. It’s not the easiest route to be honest with yourself, see your real flaws/issues and take the time and energy to make changes. Cheating is a quick fix, as well as, a satisfying solution to a nagging, self centered, “wherever I go, there I am” dilemma.
Left out of this study is an awareness of the emotional damage this does to one’s spouse and children, when many affairs eventually come to light. I’ve seen it destroy marriages and families. Just saying these words does not convey the devastation that this really entails.
Some men are cheat because they’re desperately unhappy in their relationships, and do end up divorcing and staying with their new “squeeze”.
However, I seem to remember a study finding that these second marriages, forged from cheating beginnings, are less likely to last than traditional marriages. Once a cheater, a boundary is broken?
I once dated a separated, older man who’d been having affairs since early in his marriage. He was in therapy to figure what was going on with him. When he realized what he’d actually been doing all those years, he told me he was very upset - that he’d never really taken care of her emotionally. Choked up, clearly it weighed on him and he regretted it. But the therapy also resulted in his realization that he basically should never have married. That monogamy was not in his nature for whatever reason. (I ultimately parted with him due to this, though I liked him ver much). He did me the honor and cared for me enough to be honest with me. We were looking for different things.
Finally, in my experience I see men as in two broad categories. Those who are wanting a cliose, ongoing relationship mostly with kids, and those who want maybe part of that, but the parts, too. So many variables including the quality of the marriage and the connection. My parents were married fir 70 yrs. Many, many ups and downs, but no question of their staying together. There was such a deep love between them. It just transcended everything. But I think this is not very easy to find. But if you have it, it’s golden.
No. Absolutely not. Women cheat too!! And I’ve seen it lead to divorce, too, and much emotional damage.
But I’ve had less experience with the dynamics involved. We need studies of this, too.
I find Bill's comment about his being interested in what a study of women who cheat would show very appropriate. Men who cheat have to be cheating with someone, and I'm guessing all the women the men are cheating with aren't single. An old professor of mine said that if about 50% of men cheat, what is the percentage of women that cheat? He was guessing about 50% also.
I tend to agree with whoever in the posting suggested it was a lack of committment, that and an unwillingness to stick to the vows they made (if the vows included fidelity to only one person) and that applies to both men and women. I don't buy biology as an excuse, that's simply what it is, an excuse to "justify" the behavior.
One other aspect that may play into it is that it is accepted in many ways and it is modeled by the "famous" people, i.e. movie stars and other who tend to do it on a fairly regular basis. Since it happens so frequently in the subset of the population, others may tend to see it as okay. Can't say I agree with it as I see it as immature and irresponsible, and a poor example to set for one's children if there are children involved.
Overall, I see it as dishonesty with themselves and their spouses. An willingness to make the relationship work. Any relationship takes effort and work to make it successful, however one wants to define it, and many, unfortunately, aren't willing to put in the time and effort to make it work. Regrettably, they also fail to take into consideration the impact their behavior has on the spouse, the children and others who are often affected by their cheating.
Why are men the scapegoats here? They are just wired as all men are wired - to procreate., some stronger than others. Women need to acknowledge that they are hardwired too, and are an equal partner in this debate, and acknowledge that fact. Women have demonstrated their role in seduction, either overt or covert, and therefore share in the “cheating”scheme. An honest acknowledgement of these facts may result in a discussion of how mens perceived “cheating” can be thoughtfully perceived by women with considered thinking on both sides.
First of all, Welcome back, Bill! I trust you and your family had a wonderful and restful vacation :-)
As for cheating … mmm … it’s the concept of cheating that’s troubling.
Whether it be cheating on a spouse or cheating on homework- if accountability doesn’t happen early, then I can see the dissembling of thoughts that allow it to happen again with less remorse.
As I was once a nursing instructor, this is a very serious issue. With serious consequences. Just saying …
About ‘the Donald’ story …. There is another famous Donald who may be responsible for the Donald blip, Donald Glover, aka Childish Gambino. To my twenty-something children (they are all in their 20s - I don’t have 20 or so children!) this Donald is admired much more than the other one.
About ‘the Donald’ story …. There is another famous Donald who may be responsible for the Donald blip, Donald Glover, aka Childish Gambino. To my twenty-something children (they are all in their 20s - I don’t have 20 or so children!) this Donald is admired much more than the other one.
Wow, this thread really put a serious knot in some knickers. How's that phrase go? Those who sing the loudest, sin the most. Choirboy/playboy. Choirgirl/playgirl. Hmmmmm. Interesting. Maybe that theory has validity as well.
Lots of comments, Bill:
First, I'm here to confess.
I'm one of them. I did it on my first wife (RIP). I told her the next day. Selfish, I know, but I wanted out and I figured that was the way to accomplish it. Lots of guilt feelings on my part and lots of hateful sadness on her part until she died 30 years later.
Next, in "7 other things,"
Hurrah for Ukraine! The west's help helped, I'm sure. But it was Ukrainian soldiers who get almost all of my credit -- and Volodymyr Zelensky's courage!
Sad about Queen Elizabeth II's fading public symbols. Hopefully soon a huge commemorative stamp!
Good on Princeton University. A great surprise. How are they planning on making up the deficit? Or will they make it extremely difficult for poorer student to get in?
On Donalds, is there a problem in number 7? 592 up from 610? What's wrong with the arithmetic? Are the numbers inverted? What about the previous years since tRump was elected? Also decreases? (forgive me, I dislike him so much, I can't write his name correctly)
I am still curious about your big question: why did they respond to this survey? I suspect for the same reasons they use Ashley Madison. It's fun to pursue a second life or a more fun self hidden behind a screen of an app or a survey.