It's ludicrous. This whole sensitivity BS has gotten out of hand. Wizards of the Coast is doing this for lots of D&D stuff and is catching backlash as well. The most recent one was there changed the name of an apelike/Neanderthal creature that works on the deck of a boat from deck ape to something else. Not once did I ever associate that with anything racial and if you do the problem is you not the creature. The overwhelming majority of people are fine with whatever language is there. I think they're using it as a marketing tactic to drive up sales of old books and try to grandstand their wokeness. Give me the original stuff and move on with your pathetic nitpicking life.
I think exceptions should be made for publishers of children's books.
Once a children's book is shown to have offensive racist or sexist depictions whether through words or illustrations, it's probably not a title fit for kids in elementary school or younger, but rather one to study in at higher levels like high school or college.
Huck Finn isn't typically read until H.S these days for those reasons.
Inclusivity and empathy are important.
Just because you or I might not consciously associate a situation, character or language with something potentially offensive, doesn't mean someone else or their kids won't or will.
The overwhelming majority you speak of are also probably the people who aren't potentially offended.
Wanting to remove/update the potentially offensive material isn't being Woke, it's called being kind and inclusive towards others.
It also helps keep great stories current and readily available.
I agree with you 100%. If a living author wants to change his mind/words, they are the owners and therefore have the right. However, we should never meddle with someone else’s words. They have been printed/preserved. They have been sold and boughten. They have been read. They are what they are. They are history. They are creativity. Leave them the fuck alone!
I hereby agree (vehemently) with Dustin and Dennis. Dead words, let 'em rest; living words, it's the author's choice. And that horrific sneaky underhanded unethical sneaking in to modify digital files is so malicious and wrong it makes me swear in two languages.
I'm saddened by the thought of the history that is lost potentially in the prose that was used at the time. How far do you go back, change Dickens, Shakespeare? Also do we lose a new generations interpretation of that language as in when books are adapted for a film/TV script if it's already done and how soon before that becomes outdated? The past is the past and and we should understand that and look to adapting ourselves, language and environment for the future and future communications
I dread the day when someone tries to sanitize The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, the closest thing we have to a great American novel. If I weren’t committed to no longer cussing, I’d put “Don’t F*** With Huck” stickers around libraries and bookstores.
1. I agree: Down with 'sanitizing' American classics. Just say no!!! And perhaps, a literary take on Texas' famous 'Don't mess with Texas' ... how 'bout, "Don't mess with Huck"? Whatever ... whenever society is so brainwashed as to accept such garbage as rewriting history, what's next? When we stand for nothing, we will, ultimately fall for anything. It just follows. Naturally. And, oftentimes, it takes just one brave man (a generic term, btw, for any wokeites reading) to change the course of history. And it's about time.
2. Another 'I agree'. Your commitment to no longer cussing. Not just, 'Just say no' but, heck, no!! Profanity is so very overused these days that it almost lacks the punch of yesteryear. It almost borders on the mundane and boring. Oh, and offensive. Why is it that, with all the insane wokeness abounding, there is not one single individual who is offended by profanity? Not a redundant question. Seriously. Actually, there are many people who prefer a better - and more precise - use of words. Perhaps we should kindly remind the 'woke folk' that we, too, are offended. How do you think that might play out?
How many different versions are there of the Bible? In how many languages?
Without a Google search- a whole LOT!
Updating language to fit the times is how many great works stay current.
Isn't that how we end up with different revised editions?
First editions become more valuable with age and the number of editions are published.
If i ever get published, I hope I'm translated "accurately" into many languages and that my work gets updated to fit the times, finds and helps as many people as possible and my lineage continues to profit from my work.
See if you can find the original version of Dr. Seus's classic "And To Think That I saw it On Mulberry Street". They have removed it. It's no longer available. Maybe you can find it for me.
You're welcome. I'm sorry you had trouble finding it and spent all that energy and time upset. Hopefully, this provides some closure for you. Glad i could help ;)
Everytime the Bible is either translated or rewritten words change as does the meaning (think “whisper down the lane”). Read different versions of the Bible and you’ll see that whole sections have changed their meaning. I took a class on this in the 90’s. A real eye opener.
Yes, agreed that the Bible (whichever version) we read today in English is different than the original texts. Some of the meanings have changed, mainly because there aren't exact translations across languages.
I would argue that the overall message remains though.
What would've happened in world history if people stopped translating the Bible and updating it because they bowed to the outraged traditionalists of their times? How would that affect you and today's world?
I agree with you on this one, and was truly angered when the owners of Dr. Seuss's classic books were changed and some removed. When I was in the second grade, "And To Think That I Saw it on Mulberry Street" is no longer available. It's just wrong.
I wrote this early this morning and wasn't completely clear on this. I'm going to paste it below and make a few changes.
Ken McSwain
I agree with you on this one, and was truly angered when the owners of Dr. Seuss's classic books changed and removed some of them. When I was in the second grade, "And To Think That I Saw it on Mulberry Street" made a huge impression on me, but is no longer available because it might offend someone. It's just wrong. Dr. Seuss was a genius and said what he meant. Those are HIS words and thoughts, not yours to edit to fit your views.
Ken — I think no longer selling something is different from changing it. In the Dr. Seuss case I'd rather they pulled it than go in and change a lot. Books get dropped from pub lists all the time for business reasons.
Although ... as I wrote at the time ... the way people protested this -- by buying thousands and thousands of other Seuss books to the point that Seuss had the #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, and 10 top ranked books on Amazon (all of Amazon, not just children's books!) -- made me think I really would like to be canceled sometime!
They probably dropped $5 million or more into the pockets of Seuss's publisher and gave them far more publicity than they ever could have hoped for, driving even more sales. Amazing!
I was talking about this in a different context with someone last month: a philosophy graduate student made the point that a text has a life of its own, and that whatever the author may have intended, others can have legitimate but different ideas about what it means, let alone its impact, etc.
Personally, I think an author should be able to make revisions, but that the old edition should also somehow "stay" so people can see it. This is important in philosophy and other areas where we might want to study the evolution of thought. Or in the case of children's books, the evolution of culture.
Then publishers can decide whether they want to continue to publish a book, and parents can decide whether they want to provide these books to their children. And maybe children make a different set of decisions when they find these books in the library.
It seems odd to censor out words like "ugly" or "fat" ... or "stupid" since children use these words anyway. Better to start a conversation with children, one that will go long over many books read and time spent on the playground and in the streets; a conversation about the words we choose and how we want to treat others. Maybe in the end, "ugly" or "fat" won't be such a "judgmental" word if we have a real conversation with children, helping them to be adults in a real world, rather than pretending like the ideas and reactions behind these words don't really exist.
What have we become when words like fat and ugly and even small man are offensive? We need to be raising more resilient children. Or at least kids who can comprehend the meaning of fiction.
Here’s a different take on this. How about changing music like Beethoven to be less dramatic? Or the Impressionists to be more realistic? Art, music, writing expresses the culture of the time. It’s history. Change that and you are erasing history. Isn’t that the whole problem for what’s happening currently? Isn’t that what happened in Hitler’s Germany and the Soviet Union/Russia. Think about it.
If I remember correctly Hitler was into burning texts. That’s why I get crazy when people here burn books, recordings, religious texts-anything they don’t like or understand.
There’s something about the written, bound word. Opening a book and smelling the pages…feeling them…hearing their crispness as the pages are turned. It’s an immersive experience, ceremonious…even sacrosanct.
From the tender age of 3 months old, I read aloud to my 3 girls. At first, I folded up a thick comforter, put it on the floor in our family room, added a couple pillows and would have my children lying, face-up, while I held the book open over our heads and I would read until they wanted to stop. I would become the characters.
As my girls grew a little older, I did this in shifts…the older ones would pile onto one of their beds and we would make our way through the classics, or Harry Potter, or absorb Narnia. Roald Dahl was also a favorite. Then, it was all three girls piled on the bed and we continued this tradition with the older girls taking their turns as well.
I would stop at certain passages, words or phrases and explain why they were written, but might not be appropriate now. These were learning moments, opportunities to see the juxtaposition of then vs. now…wonderful teaching nuggets.
I wouldn’t trade those days for anything…literally. I cringe at the thought of being forced to use books that had been through a homogenization process so their publisher could, in their mind, be more widely accepted and/or relevant for financial gain.
Yes…if the author is alive, have at it. It’s your right. If they are deceased, then let their words serve as history. Allow the reading experience to remain sacrosanct.
It's ludicrous. This whole sensitivity BS has gotten out of hand. Wizards of the Coast is doing this for lots of D&D stuff and is catching backlash as well. The most recent one was there changed the name of an apelike/Neanderthal creature that works on the deck of a boat from deck ape to something else. Not once did I ever associate that with anything racial and if you do the problem is you not the creature. The overwhelming majority of people are fine with whatever language is there. I think they're using it as a marketing tactic to drive up sales of old books and try to grandstand their wokeness. Give me the original stuff and move on with your pathetic nitpicking life.
I think exceptions should be made for publishers of children's books.
Once a children's book is shown to have offensive racist or sexist depictions whether through words or illustrations, it's probably not a title fit for kids in elementary school or younger, but rather one to study in at higher levels like high school or college.
Huck Finn isn't typically read until H.S these days for those reasons.
Inclusivity and empathy are important.
Just because you or I might not consciously associate a situation, character or language with something potentially offensive, doesn't mean someone else or their kids won't or will.
The overwhelming majority you speak of are also probably the people who aren't potentially offended.
Wanting to remove/update the potentially offensive material isn't being Woke, it's called being kind and inclusive towards others.
It also helps keep great stories current and readily available.
I agree with you 100%. If a living author wants to change his mind/words, they are the owners and therefore have the right. However, we should never meddle with someone else’s words. They have been printed/preserved. They have been sold and boughten. They have been read. They are what they are. They are history. They are creativity. Leave them the fuck alone!
I hereby agree (vehemently) with Dustin and Dennis. Dead words, let 'em rest; living words, it's the author's choice. And that horrific sneaky underhanded unethical sneaking in to modify digital files is so malicious and wrong it makes me swear in two languages.
I'm saddened by the thought of the history that is lost potentially in the prose that was used at the time. How far do you go back, change Dickens, Shakespeare? Also do we lose a new generations interpretation of that language as in when books are adapted for a film/TV script if it's already done and how soon before that becomes outdated? The past is the past and and we should understand that and look to adapting ourselves, language and environment for the future and future communications
I dread the day when someone tries to sanitize The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, the closest thing we have to a great American novel. If I weren’t committed to no longer cussing, I’d put “Don’t F*** With Huck” stickers around libraries and bookstores.
C.L., a couple things here:
1. I agree: Down with 'sanitizing' American classics. Just say no!!! And perhaps, a literary take on Texas' famous 'Don't mess with Texas' ... how 'bout, "Don't mess with Huck"? Whatever ... whenever society is so brainwashed as to accept such garbage as rewriting history, what's next? When we stand for nothing, we will, ultimately fall for anything. It just follows. Naturally. And, oftentimes, it takes just one brave man (a generic term, btw, for any wokeites reading) to change the course of history. And it's about time.
2. Another 'I agree'. Your commitment to no longer cussing. Not just, 'Just say no' but, heck, no!! Profanity is so very overused these days that it almost lacks the punch of yesteryear. It almost borders on the mundane and boring. Oh, and offensive. Why is it that, with all the insane wokeness abounding, there is not one single individual who is offended by profanity? Not a redundant question. Seriously. Actually, there are many people who prefer a better - and more precise - use of words. Perhaps we should kindly remind the 'woke folk' that we, too, are offended. How do you think that might play out?
I thank my wife. I wrote a post a few months ago that included an epithet, and on reading it she said, “that diminishes you.” So I decided - no more.
How many different versions are there of the Bible? In how many languages?
Without a Google search- a whole LOT!
Updating language to fit the times is how many great works stay current.
Isn't that how we end up with different revised editions?
First editions become more valuable with age and the number of editions are published.
If i ever get published, I hope I'm translated "accurately" into many languages and that my work gets updated to fit the times, finds and helps as many people as possible and my lineage continues to profit from my work.
Having different versions available isn't the issue. Having a choice of which version to buy, is the problem.
Print or digital. Search for original copies. Seems like choices abound.
See if you can find the original version of Dr. Seus's classic "And To Think That I saw it On Mulberry Street". They have removed it. It's no longer available. Maybe you can find it for me.
Thanks...
It is available @ abebooks.com. Found it with a simple Google search.
Get yourself a copy and stop complaining.
Thank you for your kind words and helpfulness.
You're welcome. I'm sorry you had trouble finding it and spent all that energy and time upset. Hopefully, this provides some closure for you. Glad i could help ;)
Everytime the Bible is either translated or rewritten words change as does the meaning (think “whisper down the lane”). Read different versions of the Bible and you’ll see that whole sections have changed their meaning. I took a class on this in the 90’s. A real eye opener.
Yes, agreed that the Bible (whichever version) we read today in English is different than the original texts. Some of the meanings have changed, mainly because there aren't exact translations across languages.
I would argue that the overall message remains though.
What would've happened in world history if people stopped translating the Bible and updating it because they bowed to the outraged traditionalists of their times? How would that affect you and today's world?
Or maybe to see what was said in context with the time it was written. Now that would be interesting.
I agree with you on this one, and was truly angered when the owners of Dr. Seuss's classic books were changed and some removed. When I was in the second grade, "And To Think That I Saw it on Mulberry Street" is no longer available. It's just wrong.
I wrote this early this morning and wasn't completely clear on this. I'm going to paste it below and make a few changes.
Ken McSwain
I agree with you on this one, and was truly angered when the owners of Dr. Seuss's classic books changed and removed some of them. When I was in the second grade, "And To Think That I Saw it on Mulberry Street" made a huge impression on me, but is no longer available because it might offend someone. It's just wrong. Dr. Seuss was a genius and said what he meant. Those are HIS words and thoughts, not yours to edit to fit your views.
Ken — I think no longer selling something is different from changing it. In the Dr. Seuss case I'd rather they pulled it than go in and change a lot. Books get dropped from pub lists all the time for business reasons.
Although ... as I wrote at the time ... the way people protested this -- by buying thousands and thousands of other Seuss books to the point that Seuss had the #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, and 10 top ranked books on Amazon (all of Amazon, not just children's books!) -- made me think I really would like to be canceled sometime!
They probably dropped $5 million or more into the pockets of Seuss's publisher and gave them far more publicity than they ever could have hoped for, driving even more sales. Amazing!
https://www.understandably.com/p/9-out-of-10
How dare anyone but the original author change his/her words! The pendulum has swung too far.
I was talking about this in a different context with someone last month: a philosophy graduate student made the point that a text has a life of its own, and that whatever the author may have intended, others can have legitimate but different ideas about what it means, let alone its impact, etc.
Personally, I think an author should be able to make revisions, but that the old edition should also somehow "stay" so people can see it. This is important in philosophy and other areas where we might want to study the evolution of thought. Or in the case of children's books, the evolution of culture.
Then publishers can decide whether they want to continue to publish a book, and parents can decide whether they want to provide these books to their children. And maybe children make a different set of decisions when they find these books in the library.
It seems odd to censor out words like "ugly" or "fat" ... or "stupid" since children use these words anyway. Better to start a conversation with children, one that will go long over many books read and time spent on the playground and in the streets; a conversation about the words we choose and how we want to treat others. Maybe in the end, "ugly" or "fat" won't be such a "judgmental" word if we have a real conversation with children, helping them to be adults in a real world, rather than pretending like the ideas and reactions behind these words don't really exist.
What have we become when words like fat and ugly and even small man are offensive? We need to be raising more resilient children. Or at least kids who can comprehend the meaning of fiction.
Revisions to books should be made only if the authors care to do it. That's it! If the authors have since passed, don't make any changes.
Here’s a different take on this. How about changing music like Beethoven to be less dramatic? Or the Impressionists to be more realistic? Art, music, writing expresses the culture of the time. It’s history. Change that and you are erasing history. Isn’t that the whole problem for what’s happening currently? Isn’t that what happened in Hitler’s Germany and the Soviet Union/Russia. Think about it.
If I remember correctly Hitler was into burning texts. That’s why I get crazy when people here burn books, recordings, religious texts-anything they don’t like or understand.
Attempting to rewrite history is never a good idea. Even if it’s fictional.
There’s something about the written, bound word. Opening a book and smelling the pages…feeling them…hearing their crispness as the pages are turned. It’s an immersive experience, ceremonious…even sacrosanct.
From the tender age of 3 months old, I read aloud to my 3 girls. At first, I folded up a thick comforter, put it on the floor in our family room, added a couple pillows and would have my children lying, face-up, while I held the book open over our heads and I would read until they wanted to stop. I would become the characters.
As my girls grew a little older, I did this in shifts…the older ones would pile onto one of their beds and we would make our way through the classics, or Harry Potter, or absorb Narnia. Roald Dahl was also a favorite. Then, it was all three girls piled on the bed and we continued this tradition with the older girls taking their turns as well.
I would stop at certain passages, words or phrases and explain why they were written, but might not be appropriate now. These were learning moments, opportunities to see the juxtaposition of then vs. now…wonderful teaching nuggets.
I wouldn’t trade those days for anything…literally. I cringe at the thought of being forced to use books that had been through a homogenization process so their publisher could, in their mind, be more widely accepted and/or relevant for financial gain.
Yes…if the author is alive, have at it. It’s your right. If they are deceased, then let their words serve as history. Allow the reading experience to remain sacrosanct.
So you were 3 months old when you read to your girls, hummm?
Back then I couldn’t read. I couldn’t even hummmmmm…Lol
I agree with you.
“that Puffin was remotely rewriting ebooks that people had previously purchased, to update with the new language.
To be clear, I think this is insane and dangerous.”
Hello 1984. Wow.
https://michaelmohr.substack.com/p/george-orwells-politics-and-the-english